What Do We Owe Each Other? Part 5: Advancing Peace in a Fractured World

Admiral Christopher W. Grady '84, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Ambassador Joe Donnelly '77, '81 J.D., Former U.S. Ambassador to the Vatican and Former U.S. Senator, speak on Advancing Peace in a Fractured World in conversation with John McGreevy '86, the Charles and Jill Fischer Provost at the University of Notre Dame.

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Transcript

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Welcome everyone to our fourth and final session of this very special edition of the Notre Dame Forum as part of the inauguration of Reverend Robert A. Dowd, CSC, the 18th president of the University of Notre Dame. We have had some broad ranging conversations today. We've talked about climate change. We've talked about the global economy. We've learned about quantum mechanics. We got some dating advice from the previous panelists. and we're not stopping there. We are thrilled for this final session to have the opportunity to talk to Admiral Christopher Grady, Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Ambassador Joe Donnelly, former ambassador to the Vatican and former U. S. Senator, on a topic that is very much on all of our minds. How do we advance peace in this fractured world? a QR code will be available on the screen behind me if you would like to submit a question for either of our distinguished guests. I'm delighted today to welcome our moderator the Charles and Jill Fisher Provost of the University of Notre Dame, John McGreevey. Over to you, John. Thank you, Megan. This conversation is our fourth and final element in today's Notre Dame Forum, where we've been examining the question, what do we owe each other? we've been reflecting today on our responsibilities to each other and our shared responsibilities to the larger world. And in this segment, I can't think of two better positioned people to help us think through this question. Two distinguished graduates of NORDAME, two leaders who have dedicated their remarkable careers to public service at home and abroad. On my right, a native of Newport, Rhode Island, Admiral Chris Grady, a proud member of Notre Dame's class of 1984, where he received his military commission through our university's Navy ROTC program. His remarkable career has spanned four decades, including service as commander of the United States Fleet Forces Command. And today, he is the 12th Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation's second highest ranking military officer, and he currently serves as the Navy's Old Salt, its longest serving surface warfare officer on active duty. Please join me in welcoming a distinguished alumnus. The Old Salt. On Admiral McGrady's right is another distinguished alumnus, Joe Donnelly. A double donor who earned both his bachelor's and his law degree from Notre Dame in 1977 and 1981, he most recently served as our U. S. Ambassador to the Holy See, a post he held until July. Previously, he represented the state of Indiana in both the U. S. Senate and the U. S. House of Representatives. His long career of public service began at the local level with service on the state election board and local school board. And I am proud to add, that he is now a member of the Notre Dame faculty teaching in our political science department in the Keough School of Global Affairs. Please join me in welcoming Ambassador Donley. it's time to get to work. We're asking these extraordinary leaders to think together with us on how to advance peace in a fractured world. Before we touch on diplomacy, and conflict around the world, I'd like each of you, and we'll begin with Admiral Grady, talk a little bit about your Notre Dame journey, what first led you to the university, your time on campus as a student. And maybe how the experience of being a student at Notre Dame has shaped your career. Admiral Grady. Yeah. Thanks. so I'm a naval officer. I come from a Navy family. My son, who is class of 12, is a naval officer. My dad was a naval officer. My granddad was a Marine. My great granddad was in the Navy. So Navy was kind of in my blood. The question is, how do you get to that commissioning state? there are a couple of ways to do it. You can go to OCS, you can go to the U. S. Naval Academy, or you can do ROTC. what are the differentiating factors for me? there were at least three. The first, was I wanted to go somewhere where I could be part of a larger community. one that has a huge impact in the world. and when I read up on Notre Dame, when I learned about it, that was what drove me, step one. Step two, I was a fencer. And so to come here and to fence for, a guy named Mike DeChico, to kind of continue that going, that was pretty important. and then the last one was I had met some friends who had been here. I was really impressed with those folks. So that leads me to part two of your question about my time here. I think I have one word for you on my time here in my four years. I didn't come to this realization until I had been gone for, 10 or 15 years. But when I reflect on my time here, it was all about mentorship. Pretty important in my line of work, And when I say mentorship, I mean, Those folks that mentored me while I was here, whether it was Coach Tachiko, legendary, whether it was Father Kirby, who was a legend in the history department. Or whether it was my peers, and there's a couple of folks from Dillon Hall who were so important to me and kept me going as a student. So this idea then of mentorship was absolutely critical. as I reflect on what did Notre Dame mean to me, what did it give me? Two things really jump out. First, I think for most of us, we're a big fish in a little pond and you come to a place like Notre Dame where you realize that's just not going to get it done. You're going to have to work really, really hard. the value of hard work and preparation in everything that we do here at ND really played forth, as I entered the fleet. you have to do things the right way, right? the ethical development that one undertakes while you're here at Notre Dame is really, really important. hard work and preparation, but doing it the right way, which is something that this university instills in every student and every person who comes in contact with this university. those two things have really carried me a long way and I am forever indebted to ND for that. Terrific. Ambassador Donlin. So my path was a little different. My dad was in the Navy, my dad's goal was to never meet any Admirals because only trouble could follow. He did. My dad put the mop away and went back to his cubbyhole. and my wife's dad was, in the Marine Corps on Guadalcanal, he took a shot in the backside And he said, Joe, just be careful. Keep your head down is what you do. but for me, I grew up on Long Island and, we were a family that had never gone to college. my grandparents came from Ireland and it was put your head down and work. And I was the fifth of five. my brother was the first to ever go to college. You know, what I knew of Notre Dame, I knew from watching on TV and that was about it. my dad didn't tell me, but I decided to apply kind of on the sly, because I thought I would be just going locally. I came from a family, my mom died when I was very young and my dad raised five kids on his own. the joke in the family was, I was asked one time, you know, you never got, you, your dad didn't get home till six. You and your brother were in the house by yourself and like you guys never got in trouble. You never wound up with the police. I said, that's because the police would have put us in jail. My father would have killed us and left us in the backyard. I was fortunate enough that it had never gone west of the Poconos. before I came to Notre Dame. It was the first time we came out here and it was like, Oh my God, there's the rest of the country out here. Notre Dame was a place that opened up the world. The world was a very small place before. And all of a sudden there's people from other countries, people from all over, world famous scholars. it was like the scales fall from your eyes. I'll never forget Father Hesburgh, the conversation I had with him right before I came out to Washington. he was kind enough to sit down with me. he was smoking a cigar at the time. and said, remember, do the right thing. Don't do the easy thing. if you do that, You'll never have to worry. I lived in Holy Cross Hall, I'm class of 77, in those days you got a pamphlet in the mail, it listed all the dorms. And it listed the prices for every dorm. And Holy Cross Hall was the cheapest price on the list. My dad goes, that's a lovely looking hall right there. so, we knew we loved Holy Cross and didn't like Dillon. Those are the two things that we knew. Holy Cross is fine. Alumni, not so much. I can take it. Go Big Red. Okay, let's turn a little bit to the world out there. this is a very broad question, but we know we're in a time of Deep and entrenched conflicts. Both of you in different ways have been working for peace and the resolution of those conflicts. How do you feel about the prospects for peace in 2024 when you survey the globe? Maybe I'll start with Ambassador Donnelly and then go to Admiral Grady. The answer for me is tell me how the United States is going to do. And I'll tell you how peace is going to do. the reason I say that is when I was the ambassador at the Vatican, what you realize when you go overseas, when you go to other places, I mean, here at home, you know, we're working with each other and agreeing or disagreeing, but when I went overseas, the other ambassadors would come up on different events and go, what's the United States going to do on this? And when other issues did come up, the first thing they do is come and go, how can you help us on this? And you began to realize everybody's looking towards you. And I think it's that way right now. The world is looking towards us. I remember a trip I took, when I was in the Senate and we went to Afghanistan, to Israel and to Ukraine. It was right after the Medan. in Afghanistan, they said, The United States is the only country that came here to help us. in Israel, they said, we fight with each other a lot, but we know without you, we'd be in big trouble. in Ukraine, they said, Russia's carved off part of our country, but if you didn't support us, they'd be sitting in Kiev right now. so you tell me how we do in the United States this year, and I'll tell you the prospects for peace. I think the opportunity for peace in Ukraine comes. right after the election. when other actors around the world know how that sorts out, then they're going to make their decisions about how to move forward. Admiral Grady. Yeah, thanks. from my vantage point, I think that the world we are going to give to our children is increasingly congested, contested, competitive, and one prone to conflict. But in spite of all of that, I don't think that war is inevitable. That, the fact that, you know, lasting peace is something that is unobtainium. We can get there and it is U. S. leadership in the world. that will do that. Now, certainly, if you look at Ukraine as an example, that should be a warning sign to all of us, a lesson learned that threats to the rules based international order are real. Threats to things like sovereignty and independence are real. Authoritarian regimes are real. That war is real. And indeed, that nuclear weapons are real. So that's the environment in which we operate But it is not inevitable that we will end up in that conflict I think there's at least two defining characteristics that we have to work through. we have transitioned through our unipolar moment, past a bipolar moment, past a multipolar moment to a multi nodal moment, where it's not just one superpower, it's others. hyper empowered individuals, think folks like Elon Musk, think the Hooties in the Red Sea, as an example of non state actors, are all part of this world that we're playing in. And frankly, that is a return to history. The unipolar moment that came after the end of the Cold War, when the wall fell, that's not historically. the norm. And so we have returned to that norm. So we live in this multinodal world and we're going to have to figure out how to do that. The second thing is we live in a multi cycle world. there is an election cycle you just referred to, two, four, six years. There's the news cycle. Maybe 24 hours. I guess with social media, it could be 24 minutes. there's the attention span of the American public. Sometimes 24 seconds when it comes to that. there's our adversaries who have a long term view. Think 2049, 100th anniversary of the people's revolution. Republic and the Chinese Communist Party. So we have to be able to work within a multinodal world and a multi cycle world. Now, how do we do that? And why do I have great confidence? It is because of the allies and partners that we have. alongside the great people that we have working for us and with us. it is one of the great competitive advantages that we have. Who are those allies and partners? Well, certainly it's the seven treaty allies that we have around the world. It's how you expand, outward from there to partners. There are nation states, it's academia, it's Congress, it's the media, it's the defense industrial base. And so I think by leveraging and being the partner of choice for those allies and partners, we will, live up to what I believe is the case that war is not inevitable, that peace has a chance. You know, Winston Churchill said, the only thing harder than fighting with your allies is fighting without them. And boy, is that true. And it takes leadership. Grady, I'm gonna, keep that train of thought a little bit. I love that phrase, multi nodal world. I was privileged to be in an event where you spoke to some Notre Dame groups in Washington C. and you made the distinction between things that wake you up at night and things that keep you up at night. What are the things in our multinodal world that keep you up at night if you look around the world right now? Yeah, so at least two things. the first I would say is the opaqueness of the world that we live in. An opaqueness that is bred of a lack of understanding of others in the room or on the playing field. what that contributes to then is you don't understand the motivations of those that you're working with or perhaps contesting with or competing with. and that opaqueness, that not understanding what their red lines are or indeed what their red cup is, in other words, how much will overflow, how much will it take to overflow that red cup. That makes it really, really hard. I think that's driven by hyper politicization. It's driven by folks taking a maximalist view on everything. and so, if you have an opaque world that you're trying to navigate in, the probability for buffoonery just goes way up because you don't know what to do. position others take. That's one that keeps me up at night. the challenge of simultaneity keeps me up at night. from someone who's in uniform. back to this multipolar world we live in, if we're going to have a big fight with China, we can also have a big fight with Russia at the same time, or other opportunistic adversaries. how we think about simultaneity across all the instruments of national power, that's a hard problem set, that comes from a multipolar, multi nodal world, we live in. in my job, I look at everything through two lenses. The first is the force and the other is the foundry. So the force is going out and fighting and winning. and then the other is the foundry. Everything that it takes in the arsenal of democracy, the manning and the training and the equipping to enable going out and fighting and winning in that force, if you have to. and so there's some systemic challenges there that we have to work on. Recruiting has been a challenge. this propensity to serve if we're going to live up to the greatness of the all volunteer force is something that we're going to have to continue to encourage. The defense industrial base that we rely on to enable going out and fighting and winning if we have to has contracted so much that I'm worried that we won't be able to generate what we need if the fight comes. So if you read the book Arsenal to Democracy or our freedoms forge, will we have the capability and the capacity to surge when we need it? I think it's an open question. these are the things that keep me up at night. what wakes me up at night, are things that spark you, right? The, probability of buffoonery that comes from the opaque world. it may not be us going to war with somebody. It could be something that happens in, some island somewhere that could spark because we have those allies and partners, we have to come to their aid. Those are the kind of things that wake you up at night. Ambassador Donnelly, you had the unusual vantage point of working in Rome and working closely with Pope Francis and the multicultural multilingual institution that is the Vatican. I know you worked quite a bit on issues around Ukraine and the Middle East. Tell us a little bit about that and maybe What you came to learn about the role of the Vatican or the role of being in Rome, in global affairs. I was with President Biden at the G7, which was in Italy this year. for the first time ever, the Pope came to the G7 meetings, in the hall where the leaders would come in, all the different leaders would say hello. The Pope walked in, and he got a standing ovation. And that is the respect that the Pope gets, and the incredible, presence. of what the church talks about. You know, I was asked, what's it like being at the Vatican embassy? I said, it's a lot like a UN embassy because you're not dealing with trade, you're not dealing with consulate issues, you're dealing with an organization who, when they talk, every other part of the world listens, and probably listens to them with more trust. than anybody else in the world. When we talk, a lot of people, believe us. A lot of people don't believe us. When the Pope talks, everybody listens. And so that created a unique situation. I got there in early 22, just shortly after Russia had invaded Ukraine. the Pope, tries to get as much information as he can from a lot of sources, and he'll speak to an audience like this, and then he'll finish his remarks, and he'll look up and go, By the way, I was thinking of a couple of other things. When he does that, everybody holds their breath. and on this one occasion he said, a fellow from another country was telling me that the reason Russia invaded Ukraine was because NATO was getting close to their border. And that was before I got there. And so I'm getting ready to go there and they said, by the way, clean this up, fix this mess. that was the first meeting I had with the Holy Father was a 45 minute meeting and 40 of it was on Ukraine. this was not caused by NATO. This was caused by someone who wants to take another country, kill their citizens, take their property, and take over. and so we worked that non stop. at this point, the Vatican's position on Ukraine is that Ukraine is entitled to all of its territory freedom and peace, which is where we were hoping to get them as the United States, the Vatican looks to us, to help. we coordinated with them to try to bring the Ukrainian children home in those areas where Russia had come into Ukraine. Over 20, 000 Ukrainian children in those areas were taken to Russia and are still there. the church has taken the lead in trying to get those children back home to their parents. we coordinated with the Vatican to have their special envoy, Cardinal Zuppi, who is one of the leading cardinals in the church. He traveled to Russia, to China, to Ukraine. And to the United States. And we helped coordinate a lot of those visits. He met with President Biden, in the Oval Office. And, I'll never forget that, it'll be a family memory because I was sitting there with the president and with Cardinal Zuppi, and a number of the clergy as well, and they all started talking about Aquinas theology, and I asked for a Coke and a bag of chips at that point. we've been able to get some of those children home. That was a critical effort. With Gaza, the Vatican tries to always make sure they are known as independent They're their own state, their own country. But we work on a lot of things together. in Gaza, I went to see them and said, I think one of the most important things you can do for peace now is to have the Pope meet with the hostage families. I talked about it with Cardinal Parolin, the second in command. And the next day he said, here's the challenge we have. we want to make sure the Palestinian families are heard as well. I said, so do we, because We want peace. We want Palestinian children safe. We want Israeli children safe. We want this to end. he said, let me see what we can do. And so the next day they set up meetings with the hostage families and with the Palestinian families as well. So they could meet with everybody. And the Israeli ambassador was a part of this also. We had, an American family, Hirsh Polin, who we recently lost, was killed. And his parents were there. You've never met two more courageous, two more dedicated and devoted people. The Holy See, through us working with them, saw that they could be one of the strongest voices to try to get these families, these hostages home. The Palestinian family is safe, and to end this. You, both of you in your careers, have worked on diplomacy, peace, security. Could you think a little bit historically, and maybe I'll get Admiral Grady, to jump in first, we're 35 years since the end of the Cold War. What has changed in that period? You entered the military when did you graduate from Notre Dame in 1984? So before the end of the Cold War, you were in the military, right? If you think back over the arc of your career, what has changed about American responsibilities in the world? over that 35 year period. well, certainly the first 10 years of my career was chasing the Soviets around. then, you know, peace broke out and now we're kind of back to that. So I would say that, this return to great power competition is coming full circle, But there was a period there in which, we were not in that bipolar moment. another thing that has changed, is, that all of the things that contribute to, a strong and effective deterrent that, The U. S. military is part of. That has changed too, whether it's the rapid acceleration of technology that forces us to think about, tactics, techniques, and procedures, or disruptive technologies, that really challenge the way that we put all of that together, or the ethics of all of that together. that has changed moving into, where we are now. the pace of change has been really something, to see. I give this example, which is a really personal one to Christine and I and my family. When I first came in the Navy, we would get mail, by sea and Christine had to number all of the letters because you didn't want to read 20 before you read 19 and 18 because 20 might say, Nick got his cast off today. And I'm like, what happened here? flash forward to 30 years. and I'm a strike group commander on the carrier I could now get texts from Christine and the boys I would wake up on Sunday morning in the Arabian Gulf, I'd have 400 text messages because they were all about Notre Dame football. score, score, fumble, touchdown, that's a sensitive topic here this week. it's an important one. So, the pace of change. really makes us, think differently. Another one is how we think about deterrence, we were very good at that. We had great minds and great leaders thinking about deterrence. we need to regenerate that, going forward. deterrence is going to mean something very different than it did in the height of the Cold War when I was chasing the Soviets around. now you have at least two nuclear, competitors to deal with. Conventional deterrence is important. By the way, neither of those two, nuclear adversaries think the same way. Chinese thinking is very different than Russian thinking, so how do you work your way, through that? The Department of Defense has embarked on what is called integrated deterrence, how we bring all of the levers of deterrence to the table across the diplomatic, the information, the military, and the, and the economic. We need to regenerate how we think about doing that. It's just as important now as it was then. and then as I mentioned earlier, the Defense Industrial Base has significantly changed in the time since I first came in. A stat for you. China has 25 shipyards that make ships. The United States has six. One of China's 25 shipyards has more capacity than our six put together. So if you think about the defense industrial base in the world that we live in now, you're not gonna be cranking out, Liberty ships every three days. You just can't do that with a guided missile, destroyer or, an F 35 joint strike. The industrial base has contracted, as I said, and they've gone to, for all the right reasons, kind of this just in time logistics. That will not work, going into the future. So, how we work with the defense industrial base, as we are learning in Ukraine, as an example, Or in support of Israel. What hasn't changed? I think that's just as important though, right? So what hasn't changed, at least for my perch, in wearing uniform over the last 40 years, is the quality of the people that come into the force. They are different for sure. They are certainly different than I was when I came in 1984, but they are not better. They are not worse. They are just different, but equally capable. I applaud each and every one of you for what you have provided to the nation and for your children who have come forward. the quality of the people that come to serve are exceptional. And you saw it firsthand. When you went out to the aircraft carrier, and you have done that as well, sir. that hasn't changed. And, and then, the, the allies and partners piece, they are just as important now as they have ever been. And so working with them will be absolutely, absolutely critical. some things are immutable. Just one final sea story for you. That's what we do in uniform. We tell sea stories. So I took my ship into Newport, Rhode Island. my father, as I told you, was a naval officer, he was retired in Newport. He had command of his own ship out of Newport. So when you come up to a port, the pilot comes out and he helps you get into the port. it's law, right? I don't need the pilot, but yeah, you can have the pilot. so you pick the pilot up off the sea buoy, and I'm looking back as the pilot boat comes alongside, I see the pilot jump on board, and I see another guy jump on board, and it was my dad. he comes up to the pilot house, we go driving in, he happened to know the pilot. They were critiquing me on my ship handling skills the whole way, turn that too soon. You're not going to back in? What's wrong with you? But in the end, as Dad and I were reflecting on that, he goes, you know, I haven't been on the bridge of a ship in 25 years. I could do it right now. Because of the sailors, the relationship of the officers to the enlisted, chief petty officers, the sights and the smells, the technology changed. But that dynamic that makes us great, Well, you've already led us into the final question before we take questions from the audience, which is what should inspire us? If you think about the people in this room, maybe especially the young people, the theme of our forum is what do we owe each other, which naturally, calls to mind service. How can we bring people together in a quite polarized country, to face the challenges of our times? Maybe, how can Notre Dame, help bring people together? What's your sense of that, Ambassador Donley? One of the things I always supported, and we don't have it, but I think it would be so critical, is to have a national year of service. And that is whether you're in the military, or whether you want to go to teach at a school, and Notre Dame does this, the ACE program, other programs. That's what I mean. When you give of yourself, you connect to a place. I worry about how connected everybody is to this amazing country that we have. And I worry about how everybody is almost an island of their own, as opposed to a country pulling together. I worry about our country caring enough about each other. When this election is over, it's over. There's a winner. Let's come together and be a strong nation that supports our allies and friends. I worry about things like 35 trillion dollar debt. We're not serious if we think we can continue to do this to our children. Because they pay the bill. But what makes me so optimistic are our young people. I mean, here at Notre Dame, I teach a course. and my wife said, how did it go? I said, it went really well, except they're all smarter than I am. and I couldn't turn on the computer. I mean, they deserve from us our best. They deserve us to be serious about, the obligation in America has always been, we're going to hand to our kids a better, stronger America. than was given to us. And then whether it's China or Russia or anybody else, if we do that, we'll always be the ones that people look to. I can't emphasize enough to you when I was in Rome, how we would walk into a room and, I don't think of it this way when I'm coming over there. I'm like the United States guy in a room of a hundred ambassadors, and they all come up and go, we really need you to run point on this for us. Because then everybody will take it more seriously. I mean, that's who we are. When they talk about the indispensable nation, that's what we inherited. That's what we have an obligation to pass forward. Because if we do, we can handle all these other problems. Like Russia, and I know the Admiral knows this and probably can't say this, but, you know, what Putin responds to? He stops when you punch him in the nose. that's what he stops at. and he knows a strong America means he can't do these things. With the Chinese, they know with a strong America, they're better off being our friends and partners. as opposed to adversaries. what makes me so excited and so hopeful are our young people, how incredible they are, how smart they are, and that I have extraordinary confidence in all of them. Taylor Swift has 200 million followers on Twitter or Instagram she, and her brother went to Notre Dame which probably gave her wisdom. here's a young girl who did this all on her own, Just started playing a guitar and singing and figured it all out. And that's who we are. That's our secret sauce. in the United States, and that's why I'm optimistic. What gives you hope beyond Taylor Swift? Yeah. She's a pretty good reason to have a good reason, yeah. Well, I talked about the opaque world that we live in, and I think there's at least two ways to cut through that. Let me give you a quick sight picture of what's in my office. So, in my office, I have a big TV up there, and we have four panels. I have, one of the networks that's more right and one of the networks that's more left. And then, you know, ESPN, of course, and then the Weather Channel. the only one that I ever allow my staff to put the volume on is the Weather Channel, to me the fact that I can watch the crawler on the right side and the left side and see two different stories, two different ideas of the truth is symptomatic of this opaque world, we live in. we've got to bust through that. it has to be a pursuit of truth. one of the things that I think ND does better than anybody else is it enables our students and what you put forth into the nation to get after truth, to be a discerning consumer of all the various things that are out there, ND, please continue to do that so that they can make up their own choice and be part of the policy discussions that then will allow us, based on truth and data, but not strongly held opinion, To go in the right direction for the country. AndND is unparalleled in the product that you put out, to do that. Secondly, and this gets to you, sir, and to Father Doubt and the rest, Use your convening authority in places like this. it's super powerful. when I think of the work that Mike Desch is doing, I think Mike's over here somewhere with Ndisc. what Jeff Rhodes is doing in the research department, what Laura and the team are doing at Keogh, this is the power of the convening authority that you can then bring people in, built on that foundation of that pursuit of truth, and help shape the dialogue. Let's be louder in all of that space. Terrific. Okay, we are now going to move to questions from the audience. They're on the screen here. First question for Ambassador Donnelly. What was the greatest lesson you learned working with Pope Francis? Well, one of the great lessons is we have a little granddaughter, and on my final meeting with the Pope, I was like stunned to watch this. Talk about efficiency. He's standing there, he sees our granddaughter come in, he puts his arm behind him, a staffer hands him a candy, he then turns and hands it to my granddaughter, and she's like, I love this guy. He has a smooth operation. But one of the greatest lessons is the church, there's this division and I'm no expert on it, but focus on rules or, trying to help every soul who may not be in accordance with the rules or putting them together. and the Pope looks out for the least of us, you know, that Bible saying whatever you do for the least, you do for me, that's who his concern always is. He is a workaholic. He's up at like five in the morning, goes to bed at eight at night. his focus is on how I can make sure that every person has a chance. he does that while running a very tight ship He is, incredibly kind, incredibly helpful, and if he thinks you're not doing your job in your department, you're on your way to a post somewhere else in the world. he truly is a reflection of what you would think Jesus might be on earth looking out for the least among us. Terrific. Admiral Grady, how do we deal with disinformation in a way that protects the hearts and minds of free people? That is, how do we allow an open media sphere while also limiting false information or disinformation? to me, the fundamental solution to that problem is data and how we use data. Because data is unassailable, and it should be the foundation of all the policy dialogues that follow, whether it's on, some of the issues that were teed up here, or on anything else. One of the biggest problems we have in my department, and I don't know whether it's the same here, is how well do we see ourselves? Yeah. So that we can inform decisions. on the force side, I need data dominance that will allow me and warfighters to think and turn faster than the enemy in this hypersonic world that we live in. But I similarly need it on the foundry side. if Congress comes to me and says, you've asked for more readiness dollars, What did you do with the rest of them? I have to be able to come back and go, here's your return on investment and here is why we need more. I'd give us about a C on that in the department right now. we're working hard to try and prove it. The Marine Corps just passed their audit as an example. what it speaks to is, do we have data that gets us past strongly held opinion to fact that then is the launching point to have respectful dialogue? we need to do more of that and, I'm pretty bullish on our ability to do that. you can think about, vast quantities of data and how we apply, artificial intelligence to it. to get to the point about protecting individual rights within the Department of Defense, it isn't AI that we're talking about. It's responsible AI, because we have to protect the rights of individuals. what separates us from adversaries that might be totalitarian regimes, like in Russia or China, is we have this pesky thing called the truth, We have to come forward with the truth to make the argument. So responsible AI on top of how we use, is a key example, how we need to do data to be the foundation of how we inform, the debates going forward. Excellent. Okay, final question. I have to say, this is a tough one from the audience. We're all kind of laughing looking at it here. Is there a course you took at Notre Dame whose lessons you still use today, Ambassador? I go first. I'll do Two? One was, I took base technology, which many of you remember. it was primarily because the rumor in Holy Cross Hall was you could get a good grade in space technology. I didn't make it, to Mars or to the moon or to even go up in some of the Navy jets, but it was a great course. but the one course I would tell you about. was incredible, and an incredible man, professor leader, art history, I was a kid who read the comics, and when they talked about the Italian artists, I was thinking of the guys in Little Italy in New York City, but you just looked and you said, I can't believe this stuff, because he would have slides of the art, and he would lecture about it. he was so elegant and, you know, I'd never seen a guy like him before. So inspiring. And then you find out afterwards. He was on Iwo Jima, and was in the middle of the fight in Iwo Jima, and he never mentioned it in the class. but I do remember he drove a Jaguar. And I thought, this guy is really something. Okay, so we have a legendary art history course. I don't know if it's the same now, but you told us to take fine arts courses as an elective. for me, it was a course called Symphonic Masters. So I thought this can't be that hard. I never heard of Symphonic Masters. a couple of my buddies and I all signed up to take the course. It was wicked hard. drop needle tests. hours spent in the Hesburgh library listening to the assignments. Listening to the assignments. and then, having the second class was a quiz on the drop needle, boom, you know, what movement, who's the artist. Why was that such an important course though? what have I taken away from that every time? one was don't judge a book by its cover. that's one. the other was the course itself was fascinating. Learned a lot about symphonies, but it was interdisciplinary. It was the context in which the music was written. That was as important to the professor as understanding what movement you were in and who the artist was, and then to try to describe the motives behind it. So then this idea of no decision is made in a vacuum, and that the larger context always is important, and to broaden your thinking before you focus on that one thing. That course taught me that, and I've been forever indebted to the Symphonic Masters. What a nice tribute to liberal arts education. That's a fact. I was not predicting this answer. Art History and Symphonic Masters. Okay, we have reached the end of our time. Before we thank our exceptionally distinguished public servant visitors, we do have a gift for them. I'm going to hand it to you right now with the warning that we do not want you to drop it as you exit the stage. It is a beautiful crystal of the dome with Mary on the dome in the main building. Thank you so much. That is beautiful. And we've reached the end of a remarkable day on what we owe each other. Let's give another round of applause to our two distinguished guests. Let's have one final round of applause for the Admiral and the Ambassador, Provost McGreevy. Thank you so much. Friends, thank you to all of you for joining us. Ambassador, thank you. We are thrilled to share this historic moment at Notre Dame with all of you. We're so proud of this community. We're proud that you're a part of it, thank you.