Letras Latinas, Part 11: From Poet to Novelist

Episode Topic: From Poet to Novelist 

Listen in to an oral history conversation with poet Maria Melendez Kelson, interviewed by Notre Dame graduate literary researcher Paulina Hernández-Trejo, recorded 17 years after Melendez Kelson’s original Letras Latinas Oral History Project interview. Melendez Kelson’s most recent work is the contemporary mystery novel Not the Killing Kind, and this conversation uncovers her creative transition from her career as a successful poet to a mystery writer. She discusses how she discovered an unexpected audacity within herself that allowed her to find her political voice, the kinship and responsibility she feels toward vulnerable communities, and the surprising spiritual power that resides in a writer’s name.

Featured Speakers:

• Paulina Hernández-Trejo, University of Notre Dame
• Ashley Wilson, FAIA, ASID, Ashley R. Wilson Architects PLLC

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/c5a74f.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Letras Latinas. 

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Transcript

Introduction

1 0:06

My name is Paulina Hernandez Rejo. I'm a first year PhD at the University of Notre Dame's English department. Today is March 6th, 2025, and we are in the Morris Inn. Our Tika today is for Res Latinas oral history project housed at the Institute for Latino Studies and run by Francisco Aragon. This project has been going strong for about 20 years now. And Maria, it is truly an honor to see and hear your voice within this oral history archive several times since your 2007 oral history recording. You have grown in so many ways as a human and artist, so I'd like you to reintroduce yourself to us one more time. In addition to stating your name and where you were born, I'd like you to also share what is home for you and how has the idea of home changed or remained the same for you in the last 18 years.

2 1:04

Great. Thank you so much for the opportunity to talk Paulina, and I'm especially thrilled to talk with you today because this is our third major conversation actually. Yes. We had a big event last night where you performed a great interview on stage at the St. Joe Library with the collaboration with Latinas, and that was just a really, fun and very touching event to see the, response from the audience and the diversity in the audience here in South Bend. That was awesome. And we had a Zoom, a couple weeks ago where you shared that you're from El Paso and that really influences your perspective on being here in South Bend. I'm just so happy to talk to you and when I think about that question about home, I think about kind of some of your remarks too about the difference between what you knew as home in Texas and what's your current dwelling here in South Bend. so I do appreciate that question. so I was born in Tucson, Arizona. I do still have family in Arizona. And, my definition of home, I do feel most at home in the US West. we have only lived, further east once we, my, my family, and that was in South Carolina. So the west, the western or western ish, states that we've lived in are, Wyoming and Utah and Colorado and California, and then our Midwestern, but still not that far. Midwestern. We've lived in Indiana and, and Kansas, we've lived all over. So that, how I define home is a little complicated, but I would say the US west is sort of the area that I feel, that I feel the most comfortable. It's the area I've spent the most time. And, I define home as having a sense of, connectedness both to people and to communities, but also to the landscape in terms of understanding, some landmarks about where I live that, you know, this river, that mountain, but also understanding some of the ecology in terms of species, being able to recognize trees, being able to understand some of the seasonality of what animals are moving around when, at what time of year. So that's, my, probably my current definition of home.

Community and Social Issues

1 3:11

Yeah. And it's, it rings, there's familiarity in that from when I heard your first recording, so I love hearing that growth, but also how some things are the same and they're Right. Things we carry just with us forever. Yeah, that's true. And yeah. Yeah. There's something from that 2000, recording that you mentioned that I thought was really interesting about how. You felt, and it was very vulnerable. It was very honest. You mentioned that the Indiana landscape was shut or not revealing itself to you. Yes. I kind of feel, I'm having similar sentiment that's why I am, I really latched onto the, unlike, you know, Northern Carolina or California where you felt connected to the environment. Like you were saying, the histories, you knew the names of plants and birds. so without jumping too early Yeah. Talking about your novel, not the Killing Kind. I noticed how prominent the mentions of play specific plants, the redwoods, the Buckeyes, the birds, stellar Jays and spotted owls, which are very place specific to the west, appeared in the text. So now that you've lived, across High Plains and just the US West, as you were saying, and other places globally, from what I've heard, how have you felt connected or not connected to the lands you've inhabited? How does your sense of place inform your writing as you've moved around?

2 4:28

Yeah. I try to feel connected by, where wherever we've moved by, meeting writers in the area, trying to join writers groups, and, I've tried to, also, you know, try to understand and connect with Latino issues in whichever area I live. And then, my husband is a naturalist. He works in, environmental education and in natural resource tourism. he's a big help to me in terms of getting to know the landscape and the plants and all that. in our current location, in Wyoming, there are some really strong organizations for advocacy, for immigrant justice and inclusion. There's an organization currently called, voices in Jackson, Wyoming. it's a very strong organization for, I would say for inclusion and equality and equity. in terms of a community there that is very currently very stratified economically between, basically between brown people and white people, but also between immigrants and non immigrants. and so I think trying to connect with social issues at the same time, you know, in terms of organizations and then trying to connect with writers, through writers groups and writers' organizations are my two. When I moved to a new place. And in Jackson, there's also a very strong writers organization called Jackson Hall, writers, which provides programming all year. and I just, in Wyoming in particular, I've just had such a great time getting to know the little bookstores around the state. It's, yeah, it's very heartening to see, and I think Wyoming is the reddest state. so it's not a given that there will be thriving independent bookstores. but there are in these, just in these, you know, tiny little towns. So that has been, you know, a really fantastic, additional piece of getting to know the area,

1 6:09

hearing you speak about. Not just the ecology, the ecosystems of our environment, but the way people inhabit land is very, you use very similar language that I find really interesting, like you find, even though you're saying it's a red state. There's, you're, you still find the value in how the people who are doing the work are there and you go find them. You're not just gone. Yes. It exist. Like you're seeking it out. And a lot of the times when we talk about the environment or ecology, we know some things might be, I don't wanna say extinction, but on the or they're endangered. Yeah. Rather to not put it so dramatic. Yeah. but it doesn't mean we shouldn't protect it. So I like the way that you, at least the way I've been hearing Yeah. you combine the language combines for those naturally. Oh, that's a great observation. You're making

2 6:52

me think of independent bookstores in a new way as the critter on the landscape that could be threatened, but it's still there. There

Natalia Treviño

1 6:59

we go. There we go. I love it. and this brings you to my next question, which we got a chance to hear a little bit about yesterday during the event, but I wanna hear you talk through it again. Yeah. And also maybe you've thought about something else Sure. Over the last, I don't know, a couple or several of hours. Yeah. but for. To many of us who study literature and identify as writers, these two mediums, poetry and prose, they're sisters and they each stand on their own, represent their own craft, art use, and they're deeply interlinked in many ways. The journey between many mediums differs for everyone. it doesn't mean you let go of one, the moment you transition to another. Sometimes you carry it with you and it seeps into your, to your other works as well. so I would love to learn about that journey, and what that has looked like for you.

2 7:47

Yeah. I love a challenge and I love learning. So I made the leap in part because I felt like I had kind of hit a wall with poetry and in, in part because I was excited to try something new, try something different. so my experience with fiction before starting to write this novel was I had taken, maybe just one workshop as an undergrad. And I wrote some short stories in that workshop that I really enjoyed. I actually got a little boost of encouragement and had, one of those stories published in a literary magazine that has since closed. It doesn't exist anymore, but at the time it was very encouraging for me as an undergrad. So I, I think I filed that away as, you know, a little boost for some possible future fiction exploration. but, in grad school I was, very driven to focus on poetry, in, you know, in my own writing and then in some publishing efforts that I worked on with my mentor, Sandy McPherson and and in collaboration with Francisco's publishing efforts, at the start of press. at the same time though, I did take one fiction workshop as a grad student with Pam Houston, because I loved her writing and she would, she was and is a full-time faculty member there, and I wanted to take advantage of having Pam Houston in, in my program. So I took a workshop with her and I, the way I think of what I wrote there, I started a novel. A novel in her class or maybe right before I took her class. and it was very like dreamy, associative, meditative, moody, in other words, not super big on plot. Yeah. Yeah. And it's in a drawer. Nothing ever came of it, as is right. And good. in fact, it was never even finished. I think I had about 130 pages. you know, my, take my takeaways from that workshop, I don't think I took advantage of really learning much craft in that workshop. For whatever reason, my brain wasn't ready to absorb many details of fiction craft in that workshop. I didn't take advantage of it to that extent. but I spent enough time with those 130 pages of the novel in a drawer that I felt like, you know, this is very interesting. This is an interesting experiment to me to try and figure out how this might work, even though I didn't advance too much of my knowledge of how it might work. But anyway, so it's still kind of in the background in the mix. and then, so then it's 2011, 2012. I had these two books out, from University of Arizona Press, how long she'll last in this world and, flexible Bones. Enjoyed, you know, the experience with the University of Arizona, had a good experience with them. Yeah. But like I said, writing wise, even though I was, it's weird, I was still writing poetry. but I lost the thread of Yeah. Putting it together and doing some, doing like a third book for example, and had this idea, I wanna do something new. so I started working on, this novel, in late 2011, probably early 2012 is when I got really serious about, it was 2012. but I wanna mention Francisco here. I know this is getting this turning into a long answer. Please do. But the part of my what's cool, one of the things that's cool about, having done in this genre pivot Is that my, longtime friendship with Francisco, who we were graduate se colleagues we met in 1998, which is just for the record that's now 26 years ago, more than a quarter century, Francisco spoke last night about, his Mombo publishing kind of taking place in, in concert with my mentor, Sandy McPherson's publishing effort with, a press that, that she and I founded together, swans Press. that's just like the start of this long intertwining of our careers because he, invited me to dinner with the, a acquiring editor for University of Arizona. She ended up acquiring my book, so that was of course a big influence on my life, additional to just our wonderful friendship. And then he put on a poetry event in Bryant Park. I don't remember what year it was. And, that's where I met the editor who, Tony Kirkpatrick, Latina editor, who has now been a crime fiction editor for maybe also 20 or 15 year, maybe 15, 20 years. And she acquired this novel. So the transition from. Poetry to fiction on the material side. Also involved this network of, Of Latino writers and of support for Latino writers, the acquiring editor at Arizona. she happened to be white, but she ran this series. She's an ally, a Latinx ally, now retired Patty Hartman, and she ran the, Latinx series for Arizona and then to Perpa, wonderful strong Chicana editor who, is very active. She may, in fact be the president right now of, Latin, Latinx in publishing and an organization that she's a big part of. So that was the other side of my journey from fiction to, from poetry to fiction, was the kind of, thread Of this community of support for Latinx literature.

1 12:33

Yeah. And I find that really beautiful. It's not, I don't know, sometimes people think that things happen in isolation. I hope. We're steering very far away from that. Yeah. Everything happens in community and that's a

2 12:43

good point.

1 12:44

like the people we know and like the relationships we have with them, and then how that, those relationships last years, decades. Yeah. that's really beautiful. And I think you kind of answered my follow question was, which was going to be, and that's fine naturally linked. It was going to be about how, not just the artistic transition from seeing your poetry collections to your novel, but also what does it look like on the publishing end and anything like that. So unless you wanted to add any other Yeah. Thoughts on that, we can move on to the next sure. Let's, yeah,

2 13:13

let's go the next one.

Addressing Violence in Literature

1 13:14

Yeah. So we're gonna try to get a little bit into the nitty gritty of your work. So I do kind of like questions on all of them, but we are focusing on your novel since that's where we're also, we also celebrated that yesterday and we've been celebrating it. So in terms of addressing violence. As someone who was born and raised in the Elbaso Juarez Borderlands. I've done research, we've talked about this too, on humanizing fide data, and I experienced like that rigid dichotomy between how people talk about foc cidal ecological immigration, or even just drug cartel violence, as if it were just like a south of the US border kind of issue, rather than acknowledging how violence is deeply systemic and it's a product of us inflicted violence on marginalized people across borders, even within the us. So I was really appreciative of how your work has continually addressed and teases out the nuance within these violences, in the poem that I really like. from your little green book, the way you call it. Yes. How long She'll last in this world. Yeah. I really like, why Can't We All Get along? You mentioned Evelyn Hernandez's disappearance, the Daughters of Juarez in your novel. Boots corrects the detective by insisting they, they use Armando's name rather than the victim.'cause they just keep repeating victim. Victim, and Boots acknowledges how Al is potentially trapped. he just got arrested. Yeah, Al heard his, her son. So she acknowledges that he's potentially trapped in a justice system known to be a hungry machine that could eat up brown boys. So that being said, why was this kind of portrayal of violence important to you and how do you negotiate writing about these topics across genres?

2 14:57

Yeah. Thank you for that question. I think when I wrote, when I wrote the poem that you referenced in here, and I just have to say, you're so organized. I love how we already put flags and dog ears and everything. I can find it. You're so organized. I think when I wrote this, I was. in the midst of a collegiate political awakening, I would say. and not that it was like, it wasn't, I don't mean to, because I wrote this when I was in graduate school in Davis, in California, Northern California, and there are these Northern California references that you mentioned, like Evelyn thatAnd. so I don't mean to say, you know, before graduate school, I had no idea that there were race-based injustices in the world. But, I think I didn't really find a way to start writing about them. I majored in English, as an undergrad. And I think, you know, at that time I, for whatever reason, I didn't, feel like I had a way in to write about, political issues in particular. I wrote about family, I wrote about nature. There were, I. Say like ethnically marked works that I did because I was writing about feelings like family and the human relation to nature. But it wasn't until grad school that I thought, wait, I have things to say about, about, societal issues. And so the process of including, violence that has these layers in it in terms of, economic injustice or race-based injustice or gender-based injustice was, something that I just felt more free to start addressing. Yeah. does that answer part of that question for this one? Yeah. No, it de it definitely does. Yeah.

1 16:34

I resonate with that to say, ah, just to keep it short, but I also found that I found more of a voice in my graduate school career, which I guess I. It brings a little bit of shame. I don't know if that's what you were hinting at, because it's I, how dare I or like barely start acknowledging more and this is more of me. Yeah, no, that's very interesting. But, but then we realized there's a lot of things in our training that kind of have separated, ah, again, at least for me, have separated. Like the, you're studying poetry. we're a little bit disconnected with the way we can interact with that or touch

2 17:03

Uhhuh

1 17:03

and grad school's. When I feel like I also had the,

2 17:05

I have something to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. what a great perspective. I, yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pick up on what you said about, the, how dare I, so do you mean that was maybe one barrier to writing about societal issues before you started doing it? was a sense of who am I to say something about it? I think so, yeah.

1 17:24

For a long time I felt like I, I was just one person. Like my experience couldn't possibly, there's so many experiences. Yeah. A ways to experience the border. Yeah. so I'm like, how, who am I? Yeah. To just say this is a border experience or Right. You know, like a Latina experience, that experience.

2 17:41

Yeah. That's interesting. that's a great perspective and, you know, painful to have processed. I'm glad you're on the other side of processing it, but I know what you're saying. I'm thinking about that. so in your case it was like, you didn't necessarily wanna be standing for Every Latina, but you didn't, something like that. Yeah. but you had, yet you had these personal experiences that you later saw value in bringing them into your work. Yeah. That is so interesting. I think part of the issue in my case was that I was raised, away from the, cultural context of my dad's family. I'm biracial, my mom's white. my dad's, was Mexican American. He's passed away since our last interview. Since our last interview. And, and he, he had some undiagnosed mental health issues that, really were a wedge between him and his family. So I was ra raised away from that context. There weren't cousins. There weren't aunts, there weren't socials. Yeah. They were people who were on the phone. They weren't people who were around me. except we would go visit them, from time to time. I think for me it was like, how could I sort of announce my opinion as coming from a Chicana perspective or a Mexican American perspective when I don't have that context that some people do. So that I think that was a hesitancy for me. So it's, yeah, it's interesting to think about what keeps us from getting into it with those issues. and then when, what is the moment when we do? So I think probably grad school was the moment when I did. Yeah. And then including, oh, including, you were saying Boots is, like stating, you know, don't call this, call him boy, his name was killed. Don't call him the victim. Call him his name. Yeah. I wanted her as the character to be, a little bit, Not a little bit, a lot forward about her opinion, very forward about her opinions. Yeah. But I also wanted her to kind of like blunder into things here and there too, because she is such a, kind of a loud be. so I do, yeah, I do think that's a moment. I wanted her to get it right. I wanted her to say, you know, Colin, by his name, there are other moments where she just kind of makes the best empathy. But I did want her to get it right and I wanted to give that one to her. And I was probably in a, a, like a midway revision. I just ate revisions of that novel. And that was probably like midway through that I was like, okay, let me have her get in here and try to redirect things in that dialogue.

Family Dynamics and Cultural Identity

1 19:58

I think I, what I'm hearing also, you're bringing up really, important points. Something that you mentioned from personal experiences you felt disconnected. from like your, I don't wanna speak for you exactly, but Mexicanness or at least like Family Connection. Yeah. Potentially bring that, yeah. And then Boots. She's imperfect, but she's human. Yeah. She's, you know, being Latina might have, might give us a list or some people a list of what is this character supposed to be like? But I think what you bring to boots. In many ways, in that moment especially too, is her humanness and what does it mean to be Chicana Latina?

2 20:31

Yeah.

1 20:32

in this, in the context that she is. which I think really connects to one of my other questions about family. both as you were reflecting about your own personal experience and as we're talking about boots Yeah. Perfect. But human. and that's a really difficult topic to talk about Yeah. In Latinx literature. it's very emotionally toiling, I'm assuming. Yeah. The writers as well. but even as the readers, I've found myself very connected to, I know we always think of texts like, house on Mango Street. I, everyone knows you go home, PA Garcia lost their access. there's a list Yeah. Books we can talk about with that. these kinds of family dynamics, especially and not just parental, but multi-generational relationships within a home. Then especially how we consider, and you were touching on that first, second, and further immigrant generations are socialized in and out of the United States. So it's a very different experience. so you have several poems that talk about motherhood and you spoke about it in the previous oral history. So I'd like to ask you this time how your novel uniquely explores a mother, an adopted son's household. culture is very complicated, as we were saying. Yeah. and it's something that transcends blood Yeah. In many cases, right? We find our culture in, maybe not through our family, but in other ways are the communities we meet, right? So could you tell us more about how your work has explored and continues to explore, like dynamic family structures and Latinx Latina Latino culture, right? yeah.

2 21:55

this, the sort of, simple answer about the family structure in here. Is that, motherhood has been a big part of my adult life. I became a mother, at the start of my adult life. And, when I was writing the novel, I had my kids were at home, but I didn't, I don't think I had teenagers at the time when I started writing it. Maybe I had a young teenager, maybe. But so I put him, it's funny, I put, al that there's, so there's a duo, a mother and a son, a single mother and adopted son that's a family of two. And at this time I started, I put boots as a few years older than me, the mother. And I put Al as 18 and I definitely did not have an 18-year-old. And then the 12 years go by that I'm running the novel and I outrow boots and my kids outrow on all. So that may have changed my perspective, but I think, fundamentally what I wanted to show, with their, I. With this mother child relationship was that complexity that you say? right around the time I started writing it, I was, going through a, I was in what, let's see what, yeah, I was in my late, I was in my late thirties. Yeah. And I was going through, I was going through a reevaluation of my relationship with my own parents and starting to ha have some distance from, you know, things that may have been painful in my childhood and starting to acknowledge like the full picture that I have. Even if I, you know, even if, whether I have good memories or bad memories, I have gifts that, that are kind of permanently in instilled in me from them. Like a love of music and appreciation for reading and for knowledge, among other things. And So I wanted that complexity to be in there. I found. once I started sort of processing that about my own family of origin, I found it kind of an interesting topic because, like any human relations, the relationship between, you know, teacher and child or, you know, you're in a social service organization between different committee members or what, you know, like any human relation, there are going to be these, troubling parts and these very enriching and life giving parts. So I liked that element of a parent child relationship in an, but where you say, family is more than blood, I like, I liked how you said that, with having the son be adopted, I wasn't necessarily trying to make a point about, created family or chosen family. I. although I have quite a few friends who have adopted children, so I certainly believe, as you say, that family is more than blood. I definitely believe that. I think it was more of a, ca calculated choice to have the son be adopted because I wanted to write something that I had room to imagine. I wanted to write into an area that I didn't know so well. I know so well, what it's like to raise biological children. Yeah. so I wanted an area that was like unfamiliar, like de familiarizing the parent child relationship enough that I could like, infuse it with some imagination.

1 24:57

Yeah, I appreciate that insight. It's. A lot of times I've heard writers say that they stick to the familiar because it's something they feel very passionate, very strong for. But then there's also that needed distance. Like maybe I don't wanna write about something so personal'cause it's, there needs to be some distance there or just trying something else, something exploring another reality.

2 25:17

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I wanted, was more the latter, the chance to explore another reality and kind of stretch my imagination without being constrained. Or limited by my own experiences.

Healing Through Writing

1 25:28

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And something else that I was thinking of, as you were saying that is in the other Latina Latinx in how I know there's a lot of that we're using for Latina literature. Yeah. your essay, curative Poetics, yeah. starts off with, like an image of your father as well and how that's how it's informed your Does it? I'm sorry, just don't, I'm cracking up. but it's about meditation. Oh, yes. Yeah. and I found as you were, I didn't mean to just bring it up, but I just heard you say like about family and how Yeah. We have things that we're trying to make peace with in our past and how that informs us in different points of our lives. So it's, yeah. I could hear echoes of that and you connect it to being cur, like curative poetics. So it's, to me it's, your work has a lot of healing components to it as well. Embedded into it.

2 26:14

Yeah.

1 26:15

Yeah.

2 26:16

thank you for the chance to refresh myself this starts that is, yeah, that's, and that's an interesting observation. The idea of, I like the idea Of language being able to have an impact, Have a spiritual impact or have a language can have a health impact. I read a study that hexa reading, heeter allowed to cardiac patient help stabilize their heart rhythm. yeah, I, I do still love that idea. I think of it as more associated with poetry. but, you know, I'd like to explore more about the role fiction can have in societal curing of ills. I would like to explore that more. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanna say really quickly, this book, was edited by Blas Falconer and Lorraine Lopez. And Blas Falconer is also a contributor to this oral history Collection. So I'm glad you, I'm

1 27:06

glad you brought this one up. Yes. we'll touch upon it a little bit at the end again, but I, but you were saying, I'm like, this is one of the reasons I really liked that, that essay you wrote. Oh, I appreciate that there. Yeah. So moving, oh, actually our next question. yeah. so talking about poetic remedies. so in addition to the poem eo, which you read first beautifully last night at the event. You also wrote the curative poetics, essay, which as Maria already said, housed in the other Latina Latino Latinx collection. And you specifically mentioned in the text how it's soul saving poetry specifically. I know we will branch out into how possibly or what you're thinking fiction Yeah. In this context. but it's specifically a cure for quote, numbness, despair, disconnection, which I, those words keep bringing in my mind. Yeah. As I've, since I've read this. so how does your work, play into this today? and how we, how do we write about our communities in a way where we're not just focusing on the violence like we were talking about earlier, but also in seeking the remedies?

Exploring Emotional Connection in Literature

2 28:13

Thank you for pulling out those three words. Yeah. Numbness, despair, and disconnection. So when I think about, the language tools that I have or that I use that I hope work against, numbness, despair, and disconnection, the two that I think of are, very, one very simply, physical details, in terms of bringing us back into our animal existence. what is the weather? What color are the, you know, leaves on the ground? What is the sky doing? So I do think, of that kind of awareness of detail and particular environmental detail, of course, as being, an antidote against, against a feeling of disconnection, to reconnect with the world through our senses. And then I also think about emotion as, a way to, hopefully create connection through literature, emotion or empathy. Seeing others' emotions or experiencing others' emotions between the reader, the writer, or the characters in fiction, or the persona in a poem. So I think about emotions as being the other tool. what I found, I think a poetry as being like a naturally emotional medium, even if it's not explicitly emotional. and some poets might argue that, you know, their poems are not about emotions. They're about other things. They might be right. But I think secretly they can't say a human cannot say that a piece of expression is devoid of emotion. I don't, anyway, arguing with something counterpoint in my head. But, but I found it harder in fiction even though fiction In a novel, you know, readers are counting on being able to understand the character's emotions, but, I felt like their emotions were so obvious to me. That I didn't Put them on the page in my previous drafts, I didn't sort of illuminate their emotions, I think enough. And so I got some really good feedback. which was, you know, we can't tell how they're, how they feel about this. I said, oh, you can't. So it's obvious to me, but that was because I felt like I was in their heads and they were in my head. So that was harder to do in fiction. But I do hope that, and I do hope that, you know, fiction that has, that gives the reader an emotional connection to other characters is one of those things that is an antidote to disconnection. And I think as a reader I find that that's, you know, that's some way that I find some curing from, from the reading that I do. Yeah.

The Role of Nature in Storytelling

1 30:30

Yeah. I, when you said earlier, as a writer, you're, you see it in the poetry, and with fiction, you had to dig in a little bit more to, to figure out how you wanted to say the things that you heard of here, but you wanted to put it on the paper As well. And so I was also thinking, I, I find so much, I find a lot of healing from both poetry and prose, but, I'd have to reflect like on my own, like what exactly from each, how do I find that healing? But it's very powerful. It's very powerful. Branching out into ecology since we talked about it, we've been talking about it, it's sprinkled into the conversation. and since your previous oral history you shared, you shared about how you started off majoring as a wildlife biologist, which I think is so cool. before switching to English and creative writing. and we can definitely see this in your poetry collections and in not the killing kind in the first half of the text, I found how Boots associated the Cal North Californian landscape as a haven. and especially as we start kind of unraveling more about her past and the way she had spent time together in the woods or on the beach. but in the second half of the text, we explore landscape kind of becoming nightmarish in a way for boots, which I think is very unsettling for her since she's thought of it as a haven for so long. There's a specific part, toward that in the second half where she, she even spots a spotted owl and she's I used to know what these birds meant, essentially. And now in this'cause of the context of that scene, she's I don't know. I can't read the signs around me. And I found that very, unsettling, but in a way that I really connected with boots. So why is it important for you to highlight the natural landscape in this space? whether it's haven, nightmarish, something in between? yeah,

2 32:21

I'm glad you picked up on the change in the way that the main character in the novel, relates to her landscape. And she does relate to it as a haven in the beginning. and I wanted to, I think I wanted to include that in on an appreciation realm. I love sharing an appreciation for nature and because it, it's has been, yeah, understanding the natural world has been so meaningful to me. So I, I have a lot of enthusiasm for that. So I wanted to include that in, in turn, in that, enthusiast, you know, event or, just sort of share my enjoyment, especially of the Redwoods environment, I find Oh yeah. so marvelous. however, I realized that, that's just one way to relate, to nature. And there are many different ways to relate to nature. So I did wanna bring in this idea that, for her, there are limits to how far enjoyment and enthusiasm can go when you're kind of lost in the woods in the dark at night and under threat and hearing predators calling and all this. yeah, I did wanna bring in kind of the, flip side of the coin for her. And, and you know, in some ways that's for me, that's another way of appreciating nature, sort of appreciating our smallness, in the face of the power of nature, which isn't always apparent in suburban living, for example. that's where I grew up, and that's boots initial setting. it's not apparent Necessarily the force of nature. so yeah. I'm glad you brought up that contrast. did I answer that

1 33:51

question? Yeah. Yes, you did. it was great. Yeah. and I think that ties in with the way that we sometimes we feel in control in nature, and that's, you know, probably why people feel comfortable in nature, but it's also not the, how should I say this? we're not in control of nature. So it's interesting that a lot of people feel like they are in control of something, whether it's like they get to be alone and just be like, on their own, not focusing on other people or suburban life, whatever there's, or, so it's interesting. So I thought that move wasn't, it wasn't meant to be like nature's bad or anything like that. It's like actually nature is its own Right. Living, breathing thing. And that's, we're just, it depends how we're entering it under my circumstances, That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And connecting that to an earlier question I was gonna ask, and I think it's good to tie it in here, is about the ice rates in and not the killing kind. And you also have a poem about it in inflexible bones called, an EL villain. Yes. El villain. Yeah. And Vian is always how I wanna That's right. That's how it looks. That's how looks. and one of the things you said in your previous oral history, quoting you, you felt the obligation as a writer to respond to those rage, which I found was very powerful. And clearly we've seen you've been documenting these histories from when you were at that time writing from your, from a place in Utah and Logan. and now writing about that kind of environment and how it happens. And it happens seemingly like undercover of a lot of our daily activities. a lot of us live among ice detention centers and people don't know. so it's interesting how we, it's not somewhere isolated. Yes. it's in the heart of cities oftentimes. why is it important to you to keep talking about immigration, raid ice?'cause you name ice, specifically in a lot of your work. how do you approach writing about that specific topic?

2 35:36

I I grew up, with this idea of, having a sense of, kinship or maybe like social responsibility for the, for the welfare of immigrants as a vulnerable population. I think it was because of my dad's example. he, is not an immigrant. he was born in the us he was born in the border in Douglas, Arizona. And his parents were immigrants, but for, but his impulse was a very, he had an impulse of concern toward immigrants who were in vulnerable positions. for example, he had two young boys that, that he kind of mentored and would take them on family outings with us. they were from a recent immigrant family. he would hire, immigrants who came through to do jobs at the house, and it was clear he was doing that because he wanted to support them, not because we necessarily had jobs that needed doing. so I, I guess I think it, it comes from him this idea of We have to look out for people who are, newer to the country or who may need some help. and so I think that was part of the idea that, that I needed to respond to the, this is in Utah, that the poem that you mentioned in here took takes place in Utah and there were these nationwide, covered in the news nationwide. day of Arley, of Guadalupe raids around the country at workplaces. And, so I think I like that it touched on that sense of needing to at least Have, you know, have spoken out against it in some way. you know, I feel very inadequate in terms of how I am or am not able to respond, but I did wanna sort of go on the record at as being out, as being outraged. And I mentioned it in particular. I mean, the unfortunate thing about, about the way we talk about these rates is that they become this focal point without this awareness that there are other issues that we could talk about too, in terms of housing justice, kind of daily life issues, housing justice, access to the economic system, et cetera. But the, but these roundups, these raids are such like headline Yeah. Makers. so be, you know, because of that, because it was a big headline. It was a big, it was a big, news item in our town, is why I wanted to jump in on that in 2000, 10. So maybe seven, around two. is when it happened, but unfortunately it's an ongoing issue, so very, that brings us up too, the current

1 38:01

writing. Yeah. That just came out last year. yeah. Even things that have happened in the last month. yes. Yeah. I was just talking about our little

2 38:07

stack here, but yeah, in terms of our headline. Oh, unfortunately, yeah. In terms of our headlines, there's Part of the ongoing, yeah. Ongoing injustice.

1 38:14

I found that in, as I was reading your poems these last months, I'm like, I feel like she's writing today. I know she just wrote this. So it's, it's both, it's terrifying, but also very artistic at the same time and how you're writing, like I was saying yesterday, transcends time.'cause it was very much, maybe it's because I happen to be reading them in the moment, but

2 38:31

Yeah.

The Journey of a Name: Identity and Authorship

1 38:31

But yeah, it's, yeah, it's definitely been something very needed to talk about and I think it, I, you said something in your comment there about how you felt like you need to say something and that connects well with kind of how we started the. The oral history with who, who are we to say something? But it's, if you don't say something, then who, so I, I commend you for doing that work for years and I'm sure you'll continue to do it as well in your writing. I appreciate that. Yeah. So our last question is about your name. we noticed how you, we or I noticed you introduced yourself differently in the first oral history. So I wanted to give you space to, to address that in however you would like. Sure,

2 39:13

yeah. Yeah. these two books are, Maria Melendez books. And, I noticed that in, I think it was the 2007 one that I used my married last name too, introducing myself, which for a while. I mean, I'm still married to the same person, but for a while, I legally had it at the end of my name, which was Gallagher. I think at some point I decided that was too much of a mouthful. I kept my first middle and last and added Gallagher. So that was Maria Theresa Melendez Gallagher. Maria Theresa Melendez is my birth name. so I think I just decided that was too much or mouthful.

3 39:46

Yeah.

2 39:47

Published as Maria Melendez. interesting sidebar is that Francisco said, why don't you have accents in your name? So I put accents in my name for my first book, and then I took them out for my second book because I was raised speaking English only, by, by, The decision of my father. And so I, I speak English, I write in English. So I said, okay, I say my name in an Anglicized way, so I'm gonna take the accents out in the second book. but then we get to the third book and all of a sudden it's Kel on the cover. I'm going to answer your question. I'm just getting through no, I love this, what actually exists, and then we'll get to the wise. Kel on the cover? But on the copyright page, I, I'm smuggling in my birth name, so it's Maria Melendez Kelson, on the copyright. That's my, middle name now is Melendez. So I lost Teresa or Theresa. so now my name is Maria Melendez. Kelson. That's my legal name. All right. Why? I, in this time when I was reevaluating my relationship to my family, when I was in my late thirties, I wanted to, I wanna choose a new name that wasn't my father's and wasn't, my husband. So a kind of a feminist, a kind of a first wave feminist gesture. so that was one impulse. I liked the word Kel and I wanted some word that had, some kind of, literary meaning and emotional meaning. And, this, there's a line in Walt Whitman, song of, song of myself, I think it's section five, where he's, he writes a kelson of the creation is love. and the Kelson holds the ship together to ties the heels together on a ship. And I thought, oh, I really like that ideal of, of life and existence kind of being held together by love. So I said, okay, that's the word I like. I like that. But, I was nervous about ditching melendez because, being Mexican American is a big part of my identity. It's part of my writing. It's, part of how I relate to the world. So I was nervous about that. So I workshopped the name change with some, other Chicana writers, SHA Raza, and, Barbara Re who, she's actually from the Redwood Country in Northern California. So the two of them we got together in Awt. I invited up to my room and had, you know, drinks and snacks for them. And I was like, I have a really important question. What do you think of this? You know, I'd be betraying, I'd be betraying my race. I was very angsty about it. And they were like, whatever, it's your name. Do what you want with it. So they kind of helped me sort of get over that and realize that I'll still be who I am. I'll still be the writer I am with this new name, and I'm biracial. I'm half white. So I felt like this sort of represents who I am. Now, the other factor that I thought, moving from Melan to cin. After the variety of reception that, that I had gotten, from these, books. I thought, there are some, in the mystery world, there are some readers who will pick up a book with this last name on a Kelson who might not pick up a book with the last name Melendez on it. Okay. Yeah. because, I had the impression

3 42:43

that

2 42:43

some readers who, some non-Hispanic readers who, might have had an interest in some of my issues, like environmentalism or something, might have looked at that and said, oh, that's a book for, Latino people or for Latinx people. you know, maybe I'm right. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm not sure. And now, you know, so now I have, the other issue is now I'm like, people who I want people to know. Who might be interested in what we could consider Latinx issues like, like family and immigration, education, justice, criminal justice. I want them to know this is a Latina book. so now I have to like, pipe up about that because I don't have the Melinda, so now I'm on the other side of the, trying to clarify where I stand and who the book is for.

1 43:28

No, that's a really interesting journey. I liked hearing you walk us through it as well. I was always raised with the, I was raised with a Catholic background, so part of the lessons were like, the moment someone changes their name, it's, it's an, it's the start of a new relationship with themself or with some other being of some sort. So whenever I see name changes, I'm like, there's a story there. Oh, and I liked it when possible we ask about it. Sometimes it's, you know, not proper to ask about it. But I thought it was very artistic of you to name. To choose this name and this is how you will be known in your novel. Everything you've been saying though, the questions you've been having are all, I think really important for you to consider, but also people in general, other writers who consider how. How their name appears on a book and how that impacts how people pick it up. that's something we've been talking about for centuries. It's not Right. Yeah. We didn't just make it up. Like it's something very real and unfortunate that some people could potentially have some bias with how they pick up books like that. So I, I really appreciate you walking us through that thought process.

2 44:27

Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. Were you, yeah. I love how you brought up the Catholic, sense of import around naming and renaming. I was raised Catholic as well. Yeah. wa it is, I'll just Say that it sort of rang in my head that like a confirmation name as an example of what you're saying. You pick a confirmation name that represents a new. Aspect of your spiritual journey. So yeah, I hadn't thought of name changes that way. And that's a fun way, it gives a fun shading to writers who use multiple pen names too. Yes. Some writers, You know, does that each, does each of them have a little soul? Does each of their pen names have a little soul or a little spiritual existence? Some. Thank you for that little thought experiment. I'll be chewing on that. Oh

Readings and Reflections

1 45:04

yeah. I was thinking also about the way we like profits. Like the moment you become a prophet, your name changes. And ah, but I also, yeah. Confirmation names. I have my confirmation names. That's right. Everything. So it's very interesting to talk, to think. Yeah. we'll be thinking about this, I'm sure outside of this. That's right. Yeah. But yeah. So to end, I wanted to end with a couple of readings from you since you were celebrating the Not The Killing Kind. I of course want you to read from Not The Killing Kind, if possible. Oh, sure. and then also, more of a selfish ask, but if you could read, why can't we all just get along? From your little green book. Perfect. and it could be in whichever order speaks to you Okay. From not The Killing Kind. I think that scene that we spoke about, had island boots at Sequoia Park and there's a lot going on. Okay. you can read as Munch or as little of those as you want. Okay. Yeah. I'll whichever ones you

2 45:52

wanna start with. Okay. That sounds good. Thank you. I'll start with the section from the novel and, as you mentioned, this is, Al the, the son. He's 18 years old and his mother boots. and she has decided to bring him to, a local park. This is when she's in her nature as refuge phase, not her nature as threat phase. So she wants to bring him to a park to see if they can, come to some accord. He's cut school. She doesn't know why. She is very pissed off at him. Yep. And, So let's see how they do. This is a mother and her teenage son, her 18-year-old. he has said they're walking along and, he has said to her, look, you can't ground me. You can't take my car. I'm helping a friend of mine, but he won't say anything more. the other little piece, of backstory is that not only has he cut school, but he has been, caught shoplifting. And it wasn't shoplifting something, you might think of as gender typical, like some beef jerky or some cigarettes or something like that. No, he was shoplifting, prenatal vitamins. Yes. So she's very concerned, what the heck is going on here? And he won't, of course, won't tell her why. All right. He says, you can't ground me. You can't take my, you can't take my keys. I need to go out tonight. you have to trust me. So Booth says, okay, here's the deal. I'm trying to trust you. That's good. That's real good. God, I don't know if I'm stupid or what, but you say you're handling something fine. Have your car tonight, but you'll be back by 8:00 PM I'm sure you have homework. Or you can study for finals 8:00 PM and then hit the books. Got it, sir? Yes, sir. I smiled. I couldn't help, but he was being goofy and I was relieved. I didn't wanna kill him anymore. He turned to head back up the trail. No, wait. I want you to turn around and hear the rest of this. He spun back around on one foot and flashed jazz hands. I'm serious. I said laughing. He dropped his arms and said, yeah, you are pleased with himself Starting tomorrow. The only thing you use your car for is to get to and from school. I forced my face back into an expression of earnest agitation, which brought back up how I really was agitated. I'm going to follow you. I'm going to watch you walk inside that building. I have a parent meeting at Daybreak tomorrow afternoon, but when I get home, I better see you there. Deal 8:00 PM tonight. Nothing but school and home tomorrow. You got it, boss. We turn to where the forest opened onto a playground. Now, empty shadows crept out from the bushy sal where they'd hidden all day, maybe nine tops. Al said I won't be any later than nine. Promise. He pulled on each of his fingers one at a time. The tiny cracks of each joint spoke the worries he tried to hide When Huda wasn't home at nine, I was annoyed by 10. I was frantic. I knew people could disappear. I'd had it happen before. Thank you. Thank you for the chance to read that. Sharing that little excerpt, and then the, oh yeah, you already know it a bit. Oh yeah. Edlin. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, then why can't we all just get along? Why can't we all just get along? Getting political? Yes. Getting political in 2006. Why can't we all get along? This is from how long she'll last in this world. Think of pink pickup trucks and picture dead Americans doing their Vietnam era Combat. Dying in neat ethnic proportion, all hail the proportional. Dead visualize, non-perishable respect. Handed out in paper bags to neighbors. A Dignity Pantry. Open 24 hours. Then I suppose we could each have a friendly lick off the other's cone. But this is your real mother on public assistance talking. Is the salt in all these crackers and canned goods not supposed to kill me? Why can't I use these vouchers for organic cheese and milk? Why are the wealthy allowed to be healthier than me? Deep cleansing breath, everyone. Oppression isn't rocket science. It's easy enough to ignore the torso of Evelyn Hernandez, A float on the shore of the bay. A year before Lacey, her maternity shirt, a billowing jellyfish crown, animated by waves. Her case rejected. From the roles of America's most wanted SF homicide. Tried spreading the word. I'm sorry to say, Evie, that without any lacy white wedding photos to show newsmakers thought no one would care much. You were only 24 and being Salvador, maybe no one had shown you yet how the gods of public opinion get fed around here. The days of good news are behind us. Now, a group of elites claiming expertise on the whole Christ thing assures us. He was way more uptight about two men trying for wedded bliss than the brutal dismemberment of women with names like Hernandez, Sora, Sanita. The Bible's pretty clear on this one. You don't need a PhD to see this as a slap in the dead face of an entire chain of mothers. Knotted. Entangled together, circling down through history, and coming to rest on the knife point of the present as rosary beads. Circle down to Christ's s nailed feet. While we're on the subject of murdered cheche, could someone please ask the slaughtered daughters of Juarez not to shriek so loudly at night? They're bothering some nice people in Texas. What they mind not being so political all the time? Say the P word as though invoking the name of a hated vegetable. For example, could you not be so lima bean all the time? Everyone knows that only a few Texans, only a few Americans get to be political and then only on tv. I'm not an angry person, really. I've never yelled at the snow from melting or curse a grasshopper for disappearing into the weeds when I wanted to catch it. A river killed a man I loved, and I love that river. Still rough treatment from the great beyond. I've come to expect it. Someone who, the son of man told me, I could expect better from the hands of humans in all fondness for the grasshopper, as I say, my neighbors and I are no better than insects. May the peace of legally recognize newlyweds be with us all and may Evelyn's broken breasts as recorded in the bay. Waves fill our ears until we're deaf to the call for complacency.

1 52:40

Thank you.

2 52:41

Thank you for the chance to share it. Yeah,

1 52:44

and this conducts our oral history. Thank you so much, Maria, for sharing your journey, your growth, everything with us in these, this recording, the previous recording, it's really special to get to hear from you like this.

2 52:55

Thank you for the chance to converse, Paulina. I look forward to hearing more about your career as a scholar and as a creative and active and vibrant participant in Latinx literature, letters, and life. And thank you. Let us, Latinas. Was here with us background. Thank you. University of Notre Dame. Thank you.