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Reunion 2025, Part 4: Finding Friendship

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Episode Topic: Finding Friendship

Explore friendship in the era of social media. Friendship can seem harder–and maybe weirder–than ever, science tells us there is an inextricable link between friendship and our well-being. Uncover the ways to create and cultivate the life-giving friendships we all need to thrive.

Featured Speakers:
-Fr. Nate Wills, C.S.C., Ph.D. ’99, ’03 M.Ed., .05 M.Div., Ryan Family ACE Professorship; Faculty, Mary Ann Remick Leadership Program; Director, Blended Learning Initiatives, University of Notre Dame
-April Garcia ’05, Faculty, Mary Ann Remick Leadership Program, University of Notre Dame
-Gregory Haake, C.S.C. ‘99, ’06 M.Div., Liaison of Graduate Studies of French and Francophone Studies
Associate Professor of French and Francophone Studies, University of Notre Dame

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Introduction and Welcome

1

Good morning. Welcome to Finding Friendship. I'm Kelsey Foy. I'm the Alumni Education Programs Director at the Notre Dame Alumni Association of Aon, the Hesberg Lecture Series, and think envy and lifelong learning opportunities like this one on campus every year at Reunion. If you're like me, you may follow a couple of priest influencers on social media who serves chaplains to Notre Dame's Al, and basketball teams named Father Nate Wills and Father Pete McCormick. When they announced the launch of their podcast, PO Quad Last Fall, a space for captivating stories from the heart of the Notre Dame community, and inspiring interviews with guests who share fresh perspectives on life and faith. We, at the alumni Ed, programs knew that it was an idea whose time had come, and then when we heard the first episode about finding friendship, cultivating the life-giving relationships that we all need to lead fulfilled lives. We knew we wanted to capture that lightning in a bottle and share it with our celebrating alumni and their loved ones at Reunion. We're so grateful to have one half of the Pod Quad Dynamic duo with us today. Co-hosts Father Nate Wills is here along with two very special guests who will go introduce to spend an hour leading a casual conversation about all the things that matter. Take away father name.

2

Great.

3

Thanks so much. it's great to be with you all, today. I, yeah, I'll introduce our guests here. I don't have anything written down, so please correct me when I get things wrong. but I will, I'll introduce our guests. so April Garcia Rock her own fan fluff. Garcia, has been a long time friend is a graduate of the ACE program, originally from Texas. And, and it continues to just be, a brief faculty member in our leadership program. She, last month. Just finished her doctorate and we're so excited, from c it's fine. but, but she's, she's been a long time friend, a great friend. and, but she happens to have the office right next to mine at work too. So we're not only friends, but we also need to work together, which is just been, a great gift. and then Father Greg Haight, also a great friend. And, we graduated from not Dame together in 99. He went on, to get his doctorate from Stanford. No big deal. and, continues to be, a great linguist. he is, a French professor, a tenured French professor here at, and, recently took, kind of that. Getting sort of a part-time thing as, well, it's probably like two full-time things. as he became the superior of our religious here at Notre Dame and in that capacity is now on our board of trustees, the board of Fellows and all this stuff. So

4

he's like kind of a big deal. It's,

Authentic Connections in a Digital Age

3

So, but, but most importantly to me, he's a great friend and has got a great friend for a long time. and originally from, Kansas City. And, yeah, we have all these, objections. Father Greg and I, we're class of nine nine, that guy said. So we're kind of uninteresting in that we're not the, you know, we're 26 years. Yeah. but April is past to 2005 and so this is a big in men for hundreds on some other past to 2005 folks. So, thanks for that introduction, Kelsey. the podcast that Father Pete and I do call the Pot Quad. look it up, get it on all of your whatevers. there's actually a video version on YouTube and then just an audio version on Apple and them followed on all that side. we finished season one. We'll see about season two, whatever, we'll figure it out. but, one of the things we talked about was the importance of friendship and the way that friendship. Is evolving and difficult and challenging for life giving and all these things that we think is really important. A lot of this, Pete originally had the idea to talk about friendship, but I think we've all been thinking about this a lot. I remember helping to set my mom's Facebook account now, and, and she got it, you know, put, fill out our profile and everything. I'm like, oh, okay. So now you, you add friends and, and all these, you know, things started popping up and I'm like, yeah, you can just, you know. Had your friend there and she's like, that person's not my friend. And I was like, mom, it's. It's not like friend, it's just a Facebook friend, and she's like, I don't understand. I'm like, you know what? I don't think I do either. and I noted the fact that like, this is a complicated reality that, that in many ways social media and modern culture, has co-opted this idea of friendship and what a friend, what it means to be a friend. I can't help but think it's interesting that there's been an evolution of, you know, on Facebook you have friends. We're only friends, but they're kind of friends. but it's probably a lower tier than like Christmas card friends. but, I can't help but think like another instantiation of social media. with Instagram, you no longer have friends. You have followers. Yeah. Right. Like, I think just Jesus says followers. but But it's interesting that then there's not even an illusion there of friendship. so, maybe just to kick us off with that, that question for both of you, and I guess I'll chime in at some point too. talk about like, what does friendship mean in this era of social media?

4

I, hadn't thought about the follower situation and now I'm like, I guess, will you follow me please? please don't, I mean you can't if you want to, but I do think when it comes to social media, and in particular, it's a great way to stay connected. I talked about it before, it's a way I kind of get a sense in glimpses into people's lives. You get a sensing glasses that's into mine. But I also think, and one thing that I really struggle with is this notion of like what I post and I was just talking to friends, real people, friends about this. Like what I post also is just like snippets of my day or snippets of my life, which can sometimes, I think also give this perception of like, this is April's light. She has this gorgeous cup of coffee. Her cat is doing something cute. Look at this beautiful plate. She made my food. I'm like a food kind of person that hopes her. I post food. I also think that miss has been the mark of like, how am I actually connecting with people? Because, and I have a sweet friend who, who noted one time she said, and the moment she realized that she was starting to post things and think, how many reactions am I getting? How many comments am I getting? Who's commenting? Who's putting a heart, who's not putting a heart? Like we kind of missed the mark that almost I think about Facebook, which was. Naming people as friends. Like Instagram is much more as like a follower or like you think about LinkedIn or Twitter, or whatever you wanna call Twitter now. I just think like, it, it kind of misses the mark of actual kingdom connection and it's more like, I'm gonna show you, look at this very manicur beautiful life I have. And the reality is I might be sitting in my sweats like watching. Another TV show, with no makeup on and not so perfectly manicured. Like, I think that's just my thing about social now that I find myself being more cautious of is like, yes, we're connecting, but it's one kind of snippet of my day.

6

It definitely has its social conventions. I mean, it's, when we see a friend at one of the, we talked about this. we had a long time after, before did this, but one of the things we talked about is living here in South Bend, you know, so, so many people come to South Bend and we see them on campus, run ended them on campus. We haven't seen them in 10 years, and all of a sudden, oh my gosh, I haven't seen you in so long. And, you know, there's a certain, there are certain social conventions that kind of come along with. having not seen someone for so long, or even in your day-to-day actual friendships, the ways you interact, they're just things that you do as friends. And so when I was thinking about the social media thing, I was thinking about this idea about how there are conventions that go along with that. Some good, some bad. I mean, at least they're paying attention to you. I mean that's, you know, at least the likes or the comments. But at the same time, the conventions especially, the thing I always say to, to the students is that social media, ai, zoom, it all flattens everything. That's the word. I always, because that's how I perceive it, is that it flattens everything. So, you know, when you have those little likes or comments. they seem a little bit more formulaic than they would in real time or real life, or they seem a little less tied to sincerity or for real emotion. So, so that's one of the things I think you always have to worry about when it comes to social media is, okay, I'm observing the convention and that's great because there's a connection and I'm staying in touch with this person. But at the same time that, that, that authenticity or lack thereof, you always have to attend to that. Yeah.

3

The dialogue part of you really lose that.'cause it's, it can often be just a one way, you know, conversation to say like, oh, I just posted this thing now people are gonna comment about it. And every once in a while people will, you know, reply to a comment or something. But it's more just kinda like, here's my thing. I often think about a, my friend Trish had this great insight about, social media. She said, social media makes us think in many ways that. Or makes us question why is everyone else's life a highlight reel? and why my life is a blooper reel. Right? Like, why does it happen that way? You know? and I think we get these images of curated people's lives and, you know, and thinking about sort of the ideal of people's lives. And I think there's something nice about connecting with people, but it's also. Track for us because we get stuck in that idea of comparing, right? Of comparing our lives. What other people's?

4

The fe

3

of Joy, right? Teddy Roosevelt Prophet said,

4

yeah, religiou Brown.

6

Well, it really just like we call the 11th commandment. That what? Love Compare. Yeah. so

4

I was like, set here first. It's a,

3

no, it's

6

a chapter

3

in

6

my book,

4

so it, yeah. Yeah. Hey, just by the way, I'm,

3

it

6

has a book

4

coming out, the book coming out.

3

Can I mention that? Yeah,

4

if you

3

want. yes. So Pray Like a Champion today, coming out. Thank you. coming up in, that's also my Instagram handle, but, it's coming out in the fall, sorry. Sacred Colon. Fairly Champ today. Colon Sacred Stories from the sidelines of Nerd Dam Football.

4

All great titles have,

6

a call. I don't have to. You absolutely have to. Right? It's,

3

forward

6

by

3

Marcus. Free.

4

No big deal.

3

No Big John. I dunno. I'm sorry. Just y all know, I can say like friends, if

4

you all are like legit friends too. Sure.

3

so I do think, yeah, that's office. so, Yeah, I think that, that really, the idea of authentic connection is really tricky. In a time of social media, I think there can be a lot of, maintenance Of friendship. But I, for me at least, and I think a lot of this is generational too, right? there's different expectations. I know I was talking to my niece and she had just gotten in like, some kind of discussion with her friends because, I think she didn't repost something that something had posted. And I was like, I understand many of the things you just talk about there. but it's just different, right? Like the expectations are different for her than they are for our generations. And, so I think there's a need to connect, and I hope, my hope for, people on social media is that they use it as a, a way to continue conversations and continue friendships so that they can meet up in person. And have that in-person connection because as you said father, I think that, that in-person dialogue that brings things into real life in the 3D. I think we learn all learned during the pandemic that like, oh, having the zoom social hour is great. Oh, it's

4

exhausting though. It was exhausting, right? I was like, I just spent 30 minutes staring at your face, but I wasn't staring at your face. I was actually staring at my own face on the screen. It's just exhaust. I think like it's not, and I love that idea of like it's things because. It's, I wanna interact with you and I wanna talk to you, and I'm looking at your face, but I can't, one, also, zoom lets you filter a little bit now. So it's like, is that really what you look like? I can't tell. it's just not the same kind of human interaction. And I do think you, I see we were just talking about this yesterday. it's an idea too when you are in person, it's almost like you use. You notice, you should notice yourself using your device less. Like, I don't have pictures with this. Lovely, I don't have a ton of pictures of what happened yesterday with this second row of humans over here because we just weren't taking pictures at the moment. And it's like, because you were trying to dive into actual human dialogue and connection and not being like, oh my God, can we take a picture of us laughing right now? Like, we're not gonna do that.

3

Yeah.

4

So,

3

yeah, I think that's, it brings up a really interesting point about like. What is our relationship with those devices too? And is it only, you know, happening because we've taken a picture or something like that? and I often, I'll come back to this, sister Alan Fra, who's just here for, singer vi. she has this great line. She says, I watch what I do to see what I believe. And, and I often think about, When young people or, it's not just young people when people have their phones, like sitting next to them, at a meal or something like that, and it's just sitting there. Right. There's a bit of, for me, there's a feeling of like that they're waiting for something. That they're anticipating, like, oh, there's, they're waiting for a better offer. Right? okay. This may be my insecurities. I wanna

4

like, you wanna like down, like,

3

did I say that part out loud? but it is an interesting thing to see, like watch what I knew, to see what I believe, right? Like, the number of times where I am. Saying, okay, look, I'm willing to put this away and be totally present to you like that. Vince is a belief, right, of like that this time together is important. and I think I, I think we have to just be, we have to fight for that more and more. Like, I can put my phone away and then still look at my watch and like, oh, now I'm got a notification there, right? Like, I fight all that stuff because the pings, the little.

6

notification,

Evolving Friendships

3

that is an actual dopamine rock. Like, you know, I just talk about this of you getting a bit of a hint from that stuff. And it's really hard to fight that. It's hard to fight the notifications of like, Ooh, somebody sent me a message. Well, my mom, that's okay. I'm just kidding. Is she watching this? I'm not. just talked to her this morning. It's fine. Fine. I love my mom. But I do think, I think we have to fight more and more for quality time with our friends and, you know, that can be victors remember, but, to make sure that it's not always mediated. Okay. Sorry. next question. Yes. how has, talk about the way that your friendships have evolved over time.

6

that's a big one. You know, as I was talking about earlier, people coming to South Bend, you don't see them for a while, or they come for a football game, you see them at a tailgate and you haven't seen them in years. And this is always a very interesting thing because you have, you have these moments that you shared an undergrad together, and, they were great and were around that person every day. I mean, this is one of the things I think about is I was around this person, this was my roommate for three years. I, I live with this person for three years. It's amazing. But he has this, his own life now, and I have vinyl life now, and it's diverged and it's very different. But the way in which we try to connect and make sure that we're checking in with each other and that we, that we maintain this friendship that you, we share a lot in those three. I was an RA in my senior year, which is why I didn't live in it. but you know, we, you know, we shared a lot in those three years. Ups and downs and difficult days and great days. and so you have that connection with this person who really knows you well, even though you may not see him that often. So it's this, that, that shared experience that you have together is food for the friendship to continue, but at the same time, it just looks different. You're not around this person every day, just so, just time. Is and distance are things that, that force the friendship to evolve and you get different things out of it. And you of course, you put different things into it in order to maintain it and cultivate it. But I think that it's there, there's a certain beauty in that because. Your lives are different and you're both having your own experience and you're fulfilling your dreams and you're doing what this place Notre Dame was meant to have you do, which is to build a life and for the sake of the kingdom, in my opinion. But anyway, so, you know, so you just, you do that and you kind of launched into that, but at the same time, what forces that friendship to evolve is that divergence, but it also makes that time together. Interesting. When you can share about that evolution or about that divergence that you've had.

4

I think it's also, recognizing, and I say this as and I'll speak from my one I, or not one, one of my many identities, but one identity as a woman. I think as relationships change, it's also so much shaped by what does that look like in terms of family? What does that look like in terms of kids? What does that look like? And like I'm navigating my identity. they're navigating theirs. and. I do think that the evolution part, like we obviously have something, we had something in common to begin with. That's why we became friends because I saw you, you saw me and we said there's something here that spark, you know, the little cheese spot, like the spark of goodness within the two of us. So I think sometimes also recognize that, how can I go back to that moment knowing that I am, I'm a different person. You are a different person. But we had something, and I think Notre Dame in particular, I was just listening. It was in our office'cause we were talking, I overheard a conversation, about our graduate students who are coming to campus. In a short period of time, father and I'll be very ready for them. but they were talking about the Notre Dame like experience of putting people in dorms. And I heard, our, someone in office, she, they just put them randomly and it's like, and I was like, yes. Well, I believe it's confidential too, you know, but she's like, well, what if, like, and I said, well, I'm sure there are things, you know, you don't wanna put someone, like, I'm gonna have a whole wing of people from California said. The reality is I do believe it's just the grace. Like it is the grace of God. I said I don't, I'm just saying I think there's a little bit of something happens in there, but I do think it's this idea of like amidst those differences and amidst like the uniqueness within the individuals, there's a universality of like, we all came here to this space, or we have this shared experience, or there was something that con in common them. The start. That when you kind of get past the, oh, I have a very cute cat. Oh, you have three kids, or, you work a very different job, or I still don't really know what your job is. I don't know what most of my friends' jobs are, just so, you know, I make them up. and I make them sound cooler. but I do think that it's like, it comes back to what is that core? And for, I believe here at Notre Dame, we can always come back to there was a reason we chose to come here. and that experience of being in a dorm or. My commitment to South Dining Hall, like I just think those things are just so core to identity. but you kinda have to find your way sometimes at back and in the conversation as you bump into someone on campus. It's like, it's a little storytelling that happens, I think too. Like remember that time, you know,

6

I wanna add something or comment something you said. I think it also, especially with the random assignments and the residence halls. That it, it shows that sometimes friendship isn't always based on affinity. It could be based on experience or community. The community that, that you're a part of. And that, that it develops out of that, and it's this person, if I had met this person randomly on the street, would I have ever become friends with him? I don't know. It's tough to say, but after sharing that experience, of residential hall life together and sharing a room for three years, well, of course you're gonna be, you've learned how to. if there were any wrinkles of the relationship, you've learned how to iron them out or you've learned how to, I mean, just you've learned how to live with this person and appreciate this person who was randomly placed in your life to live with you every day. So, which what I, that comes outta my mouth. That does seem a little weird, but, but it is true. and so. It is really a, I hate, I mean, I don't hate to, but I'm gonna make it religious, but it is this idea of connection with other human beings that is to a degree, a choice. You know, it's a choice to love your neighbor. and so, and friendship is a deeper expression of that, but that choice can really turn out to be a very meaningful relationship.

5

Okay. Yeah,

3

I think that's really great. I like this idea too of the, our. our interconnectedness, you know, as the mystical body price. Like, I think that we get a sense of the ways that we're connected with people who we wouldn't otherwise choose when we're thrown into something like a random group like we are in the dorms. I mean, I think we all probably share this skin experience of like being assigned to a random dorm with random people. father Greg and I still live in, dormitories. I live at the, I live in Hall with 270 young men. They're awesome. but we, they're hilarious and fun and, interesting too. And I really appreciate the way that, nerding does that kind of randomly assigns people into dorms because you see that sort of. unintended diversity that of people saying, you know, oh, the, the guy down the hall from me is from Guam, and the other person, that I just got to know is an engineering agent. Like, what is that? You know? and I think there's a real bonding that happens, because of that. And I, I did grass foot Wisconsin and I saw their fraternity and sorority system that, they would like there, there were times when they would all like parade around. And I notice like they all look alike. You know, when they're on their like little, convertibles and whatever. I'm like, oh my gosh, like, is there like a blonde girl sorority? I don't know. but interestingly, I think given the choice, sometimes we'll go towards people that we have so much in common with, or, you know, kind of like superficial affinities. And it takes something like this storm system where you kind of break that down and say like, no, you're now assigned with this person who, you know, may or may not share your likes and dislikes, your cultural heritage, your politics, your religion. Right. Really important stuff. Right? And that, and I think it reminds us of our interconnectedness, of our presence within the mystical body, Christ of the challenge of like just saying. You know, get along with people.

5

Right,

3

right. Figure it out. Like you said, you know, you, you have to negotiate, navigate challenges and all this stuff, which is a huge life skill. and it can be life changing too. I think about my older brother who got ran, they assigned to, A roommate who was a computer science major, in, from Tennessee. My brother was a, you know, a pre-med major and who was a walkon to the basketball team from Minnesota. They had like nothing in common, right. but he met, his roommate and they became friends. They roomed together all four years. And because of his roommate's dad, who's an orthopedic surgeon down in Tennessee, my brother got excited about being an orthopedic surgeon and is now an orthopedic surgeon. so like it changed his life.

5

Yeah. Yeah.

3

and I think that's just incredible. okay. To the point about, friendships evolving, I think this is such a tricky one because, Like, I as a person tend to hold on to friendships. Like I'm really hesitant to let friendships go. Like I, I'm still subscribed to Columbia House. Sorry. That was like a generous,

6

that was super, that was great.

4

Do you know that your money is being wasted?

3

I love the taste. no. It's, I'm really hesitant to give up on. Friendships and and it's, it is the case that sometimes in life too, just things of all. and I think it, we have to get over the guilt that certainly I feel of like, oh my gosh, we're not as close as we used to be. Right? Like, and. I don't know, big things in your life right now? I mean, I, the other day I saw my, my freshman year roommate from college. He just came to visit and I'm like, I don't know how many children we have

5

nothing.

Challenges in Friendships

3

I don't know the number of children that you got. And he sends me a Christmas card every year. but like, it's just hard. You lose touch and I think we can't, feel guilty about that because people come into our lives at different points. Transform our lives. and that's not a, it's not a bad thing to say, like, and that was a moment, that was a chat. Right. and to say we can kind of keep going forward. And I, I think these moments as you said, to reconnect with people at Reunion are such a beautiful, mirror for us of our lives of thinking like, oh, this is the person, you know, the person that I was. And now through my experience in life, I've grown and I'm still that person, but you can, but we're all, given the opportunity to evolve, right? And we're all, I think have the permission to grow and become, you know, better, more, alive ex versions of ourself through our experiences, sometimes through suffering and, and the challenges that we experience. So, okay. So. thank you. I appreciate the evolution coming. So talk a little bit about, the, a time when a friend of yours has challenged you. Yeah. fun

4

time, honestly. Just like once.

3

Yeah. How has that affected your friendship or, I mean,'cause it's a tricky thing, right? For somebody to challenge for you to challenge a from. Is like, there's a potential that you might lose that friend. Right? And then there's a potential that they might just walk away and be like,

6

I actually rely on this. so the, I mean, I don't know if we ever had a moment, I'm thinking of a particular friendship I have where, you know, I don't know if there was ever a moment where we said, okay, we're going to challenge each other. And, you know, he has an opportunity to see me in my life day in to day out, and he knows my flaws. So he's able to say to me at times, you know, Greg, I don't think he handled that super well, and I'm totally comfortable with it, and I do the same for him. and it's, it works for us in that friendship. And that's not the only aspect of our friendship, but it's, I guess we have the, we have the love, between us and the trust between us. In order to do that in a way. Where we can not only give that feedback, but also hear that feedback and in a, that it's helpful. So, I mean, I appreciate that very much. And I don't know it, it's, I wish I could say, oh, this is how I did it. It just, speaking of evolutions, it just happened, just after being together. This is a fellow free separate class, but, so you know this, so it just, after a while, this was something that we offered to each other in our friendship, but I very much appreciate it. I mean, I don't know if any random person came up to see you. I might react to it differently because that love and that trust isn't there. and so I mean, I think in the context of that, that, that might be an essential element or essential elements in that friendship that allows that to occur in a helpful way.

3

I think we need this in a different way too, as priests because we don't have spouses. Right, right. Of people who, and maybe this is the role your spouse plays in your life, of somebody who sees you and can challenge you in those moments.

6

I need Nate to tell me when I have food on my face, you know? That's true,

3

Chuck. but I do think, I think that's becomes more important for us. as opposed to someone who's married. Yeah.

4

Yeah. I think too, I, I recently, was just thinking a little bit about like this idea of self-care and like, I just need to, I just need to worry about me. And I think this push also in social media, this magical. Bubble water I'm gonna have in the morning with a lemon in it is gonna really just cleanse me and I'm gonna be so good and take care of myself. But I do think that the self-care, one thing I really question myself, I mean, you were thinking about a person is having friends who also are willing to actually care for you, but friends that you're willing to allow yourself to be cared by. because self-care is like, I'm worried about me worrying me. And it's like, no, as a person who. Just needs to be cared for. Like I should allow people to care for me. And I think I have a friendship that also kind of connects to a friend that I feel. Just really says like, Hey, I'm just gonna like check you a little bit on this or say, I, it's not even so much I don't think you handle, like, I don't think you're actually protecting or caring for yourself in the way that you seem to be caring for others. and I just wanna name like, you did this and this person did that. I recently found this thing on Instagram that said there are two types of people there would be. I feel bad about this. And then you have the other friend being like, but does the other person feel bad about it? You know? And so I think it's sometimes it's like the guilt of like, I'm not being my best self and I'm. To also have a friend that's willing to say like, no, you're doing great. Or If you're not doing great, name like X, Y, Z, like, these are the things you need to stop doing, or these are where you keep showing up for this other friendship or this other situations. I'm just gonna call you out and maybe say, let's step back. you're putting a lot of effort forward and it's not coming in for, you know, and are you happy right now? And I'm like, I don't know. Okay. If you can't answer, then I don't think this is really like life giving to you. But I do think when it comes to friends kind of being able, yeah, I don't, I think if someone else said that, I would just be crying. Like in this case I'm crying, but I'm also like nodding like, yes, I should be nicer to myself. Yeah.

7

Versus a random train.

3

Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea. And I think, yeah, I think it's really important for us, to have friends where we can, Constantly, bump up against things a little bit like they, where they don't, it's not based on challenges, but they can help us to move a little bit. Right. Like they can nudge us to grow. And

6

I think it's a harder to be that of self

Examples of Great Friendships in Pop Culture

3

Yes. Yourself. Exactly. It's a tricky balance, right? Of, of like how much do you nudge and how much do you push and how much do you just accept the person for who they are. and I, I. I think what you said, Greg, is really important of like, if you can ground all of that in love and in, in a trust that they know, like, I know that this person loves me and I know what they're saying, even if it's a tough thing comes from a place of love. I think that's the key. daring. I don't know. I think about my sister's really good at challenging me at moments that she's, and I think we have that love because we know we're stuck with each other, right? We're like, okay. but, she's also, my sister who is, Become one of my closest friends because of her ability, her thoughtfulness, because of her care. and she's like, sometimes when she's saying something hard to me, she'll like, hold my hand and she'll like, okay, you need to hear this. Here we go. So to say, how bad is my haircut? Yes. But it really is, it's important. I think, and I, to your point about the evolution of how that ends up going, I don't know if you can, I guess it comes about when you invite that, right? And say like, maybe not in this moment, but at some point I, I empower you to challenge me. Right. And to give that feedback. I think.'cause it's really important. okay, so what are some examples? and in pop culture, in media, in whatever, where you see. Really helpful friendships or really good examples of friendships. And why do you think those are really good examples.

4

I'm happy to kick this off. yeah,

3

totally. Please. Because I think you

4

woke have, like, you were very hyped about this.

8

We, I was very hyped about question. You were very hyped about it.

4

So, there's good question, right? It's a great question. Also, I think it's like, it kind of starts to think like what are types of friendships that you like really want to, or find or see yourself in? there's a movie called Book Smart. There are two, two women who are in high school, and they love each other. They are obsessed with each other. but they also do this beautiful thing of like hyping like the other person up. Like she walks out and she's like, you are this. Like, she's trying to shine on like a new outfit or a new idea. It's such a, like, high level of height. but I also think they have a, an. Spoiler alert. Like they, how do we, that they, even as they navigate a separation, like how they're gonna continue to support one another. and that's the way I like to show up for friends. I like, if you tell me I'm gonna do this thing at this time, I'm like, I will be there, or I will make sure to send you 7,000 text messages, or I will find a way to hype you up like that. That's the way I appreciate friendship and that's the way I appreciate to be like given back. So I think for me, like Booksmart being a hype girl, like, huh. I just wanna like show up for the person like. Obviously, yes, please do the pre-order. The book by the way, also submitting, there's gonna be a book coming out at Father Greg. No, please, I'm not writing about both the two of them, but like if you tell me something about you, I wanna hype that up. And I feel like that moving to me does a beautiful job of like honoring a person and like just saying like, you are the best thing. And just like, I mean, who doesn't like to hear that? But I think who also doesn't like to hear that from someone that you know is actually telling you the truth because

3

you're very good at that.

4

Thanks. Thanks. I tried through the wall just to go like this when I think he's doing something there. his excited voice.

6

I mean, I like the truth telling. I mean, use that as a segue, because the example I thought of, and I, and when we first, talked about this, I said, how do you have to think about this for a while? But then it came, it almost after we finished that conversation, it came to me was, day once. See, this is this now movie people isn't, aren't watching it as much, but master commander. Yeah. Ru Russell Crow. Yeah. And Jack Rey. And Steven Mattern, which is big. The book right. Series of books. Yeah. So, anyway, that, that friendship, because they tell each other the truth. that's a really, and it, they're in, obviously in a very high pressure situation and, you know, the battling the French, which, you know, isn't this great? But anyway, the, but the, yeah. Well, it's been a chaotic era, but it makes it exciting,

4

which doesn't tell you all about, yeah,

6

sure. but their friendship, at least as, as it's depicted in the movie, is great because the things not only do they tell each other the truth, they're willing to sacrifice in themselves for the other, and it, in this very short two, two and a half hour movie, it really depicts that friendship in a way that I'm like, yeah, that's definitely an ideal of friendship for me because they're both who they are. They both tell each other the tru the truth, and they're both going to sacrifice for each other. I think that's probably, that probably sums it up for me. Yeah,

3

I love that. I was thinking of, I love the show, parks and Rec. and like anything Michael, she does, I was Love it. Who?

5

Sebastian, right?

Counterexamples of Friendships in Media

3

Yeah. We are an Indian. but, there's a, this show and what it has, like this really overzealous. director of Parks and Rect, Amy Puller pleaser. And, she's just like so much energies, know anybody like that. but she's, he's, like overly thoughtful to people and at one point her, boss, this guy Ron Swanson, who was just like, you know, tells no one anything about his life. He values his privacy. He's like grumpy about everything and she finds out his birthday is. He is like, oh God, no. please don't. And everybody's telling him what she did for their birthday and you know, it's like, oh, you know, she kidnapped me and brought me to senior tacos and we, you know, put the sombre on. And he is like, oh God, I don't want any of that. And and in the end, it's funny, the episode against Spoiler, the episode ends with her, A steak from his favorite place and setting up this, conference room with his favorite scotch and putting a guard at the door so nobody gets in. And so he can watch Bridge over River, quiet by himself. Hold on. And he's like, what is all this? And she, and he said, I thought you were gonna do all the stuff you did for Anne. She's like, no. That was an Anne Putin birthday. Why would I do an Anne Perkins birthday for Ron Swanson? and I think something about that. Something about friendship to me is to be seen and loved. And I think there's a real beauty in someone seeing you, understanding who you are and loving that. And I think that's, to me, that's the heart of, a great friendship. And I think that's what, what you see in that moment that she saw not just what he liked, but more broadly who he was, and what he values and was able to meet him. in that moment. And I think I, I see that and value that from my friends as well, that they see me, and they love me and, they love me enough to challenge me sometimes, but, but I do think I love that, that notion of, of just being friends in that way. we talked as well about, the, kind of Frodo Sam, yeah. Friending. Yeah. There he goes. and I love that notion of friendship too, of there's this one moment in Lord of the Rings when, you know, Sam's carrying this ring of power and says like, I can't carry the ring for you, but I can carry you. I'm like, pick some up. And, and like that to me. I mean, it's such a powerful moment. and it was delivered so beautifully. I think that's often the way I experience friendship too. people, you know, carrying me through moments where I can't carry myself and they know that they can't remove my burdens, but they can accompany me, right? Like the Pope Francis notion of. A ment, I think is so powerful, and something that I think, resonates with a lot of us.

6

Can we do a counter example? Yes. Ooh, I know. Talk, I mean, I've been, I've recently, I don't know why, been watching old episodes of friends. Oh. And I'm like, I don't think these people are really friends. I, I don't think they really, I, well, I, it all, they just seem pretty narcissistic and, I mean, I know that. You know, they sometimes tell the truth to one another, but I mean, it just seems, it, it's just a very strange, you can tell that there's definitely a dynamic between those actors. Yeah. That makes the show work. For sure. But you know, as a model of friendship, which is ironic, basically maybe show as friends, but as a model of friendship, I'm not sure that it works. It's funny. The dialogue is very, witty. and you know, I didn't notice this when I watched it the first time around, but they do a lot of homage shows. Let's, they do a show like in the style of three's company, and they do, I didn't know they did that. Rewatching some of the episodes. I recognize the illusions, which is what I do for a living. So that's, but anyway, so that's, but anyway, but as a model friendship, I don't think it works.

4

I would say any reality TV show at this point? Oh definitely, yeah, definitely.

3

Yeah. There's no, it's a line not reality TV show. I didn't come and make friends. I didn't come friends,

4

yeah. Find a little line'cause I'm holding some, an apple or something. Yeah. I do think that so much of like reality television, because I'll talk about that. I. I won't even name the shows because I will allow you to just imagine things that sometimes I watch on tv. But I do think that sometimes you're like, and now we are gonna end the season and we've just, I feel like we've grown closer and I'll like have you, because I saw all like, I just, I think it's a, again, it's, and we talked about the start, but so much of like presenting like we're friends now, we're such good friends. Like no, you all talk a lot of trash about each other all season. And you're doing it for the likes and for the. Provo deals and all those pieces, I think, yeah, they made

6

so much money together. They made

4

so much money together. Yeah, I know If we made money together, would we be closer? Yeah. I dunno. Don't think so. But yeah, it's about so much about, I think, you know, promoting individualism, and not necessarily, I think like that's a good counter example.

6

Yeah.

4

Just put on Bravo.

6

Trained. Yeah, I know what we're talking about.

7

Okay, good. I do like, I'm embarrassed to stay in the front of the crowd, but know, by the way, I sometimes watch real positives, so the record has shown.

3

That's awesome. so we're gonna open it up for, for questions here in just a minute. but, yeah, I'm trying to think of counter examples that,

1

Bon Bear Cube, there's so many. Yeah, right?

3

There's so many. No, I think, but I think you're spot on in that they full of like friendships of utility are always the ones that like drive me nuts. where people, you know, are kind of asking like, what can I get from this? It's natural

5

nature.

3

I often encounter this. So the My work with the football team is, it's just beautiful and awesome. The guys are really great, but I realized pretty quick, that like everybody kind of wants something from them. And this is one of the challenges that I think a lot of them face is that, they. They encounter people who are like, oh my gosh, you're, this is so great. You're so great, right? Can you sign this thing? Can you leave a voicemail for my friend? Can I take a video of you? You know? And they're always encountering people who just want something from them. And in that light, it's really hard to form authentic friendships. So they end up being like friends with each other. I mean, there's actually a number of, I've done a number of weddings for, for football players who have married, people that they were friends with in like grade school or high school that they've known. they grew up in the same hometown because they know like, this person isn't just friends with me because of my fame or my whatever. they don't want something from me. They just. They know who I am, they wanna be friends. And so, so I think that, this is not from pop culture, it's just from like, real life. but I think that's a counter example to me of, if you're asking, you know, what can I get from this person, then it's not a friendship.

4

Yeah. And I would say, and I, nobody, I'm just a person who works here. I would say I, I feel, and I imagine happens to you too. Like, I think it also being on campus in and of itself, like. I think about the number of times that somebody has, casually reached out to you and said, do you happen to have, those, national championship play off today because you have that one time? We talked like that one time we talked. I'm just wondering if that one time we talked and we had that one discreet experience. If you just happen to, I don't know, let's just say by the grace of God had two tickets, I feel like you'd wanna give them. That's good. but I do think that transactional nature, and I just, I know obviously being a lay person on this campus, like. Affords me often the opportunity just to kind of, I mean, I put a baseball cap and I'll keep walking. No one knows who I am. Versus like the, I just think that the presence also of like your, that identity of being a Holy Cross priest on this campus, like yes, you have your candle, yes, you have a book coming out, you also have a book coming out and we have a big Nicole, this, you know, big deal, any other woman's campus, but like you also have other identities. We think about that transactional nature of even being on Notre Dame's campus, which is beautiful and gorgeous and lovely. I think to just be aware of that too. like I just think about the number and the absurd requests that come through your opposite times. Pay

7

admissions.

4

Yes, admissions. Oh my gosh. So you're not gonna get certain names into Notre Dame for us next year? No. See, there you go.

3

Oh, great. Well, let's, let's just, take a couple minutes for questions and pee up. Yeah, please go ahead.

4

I have a mic for you back. oh,

3

look it, there's a mic coming for you.

4

Coming with the mic? Yep. yes. Right behind you.

3

Right behind you.

8

We have, okay, here we go. We have a friendship with about 30 guys from Notre Dam. It started 57 years ago. Woo. Fantastic. And we're close. We've been close all this time. We went to the University of Burg together, you know, on behalf with Notre Dame. Recently, some of us had hit a dick, and like you said, this blow off. There's people looking at one, oh without love. It has to do with the recent politics. Yeah. You know. How do you handle that? You know, is there a hope to get through that? Does it pass or how do you read that? So

6

we actually did talk about this. This is a great question'cause I mentioned that I have a friend from undergrad who, he wasn't my roommate, but we were very close in undergrad. And our, his politics has definitely diverged. I mean, I don't know how he would characterize it. I'm wondering if he's watching us, but anyway. No. You know who you are. No, he, he does. And we kind of know and I think that, frankly, we just don't talk about it. we can still talk about, fortunately, we could still talk about face, we can still talk about family. We can still talk about, our work to a degree. and so I, I think we've just circumscribed that area, wound it aside and realized that it's just not going to be fruitful for us to talk about that. And the thing is, we, I think are mature enough about it, at this point to say this, having discussions about this area of our life is not essential for us to continue our friend in. Now not everybody is prepared to do that. and so I think that, yeah, I think it's more of an, again, it has to, goes back to what we were talking about earlier about you just at a certain point it does point of the evolution of friendships is a certain point. You have to make a choice. About what matters and doesn't matter.

4

Yeah. Because getting an openness and I, I just, were. You think about social dialogue and the ability to dialogue and I think like Pope Francis for tele two like wings in so of like the way you can interact and talk to others, that you can say, we're gonna talk about this and talk about what we have that is common. but then also the ability to say like, I actually don't think, and I think it's either a matter of we're just gonna put that off the table, or. We cannot find common ground and the other party cannot just put it aside for a moment, then this, maybe we're just gonna, this is gonna move to a much more social situation. We're gonna recognize like, what boundary do you wanna have? But I think there's also beauty in honoring and saying like, I would rather in this friendship right now, in the way that it exists, then to continue to kind of drag it. Like I, I always think like, I wanna leave a situation and say, you know, I have no hard feelings. I'm just gonna like. I still wish this person the best. I still want what's best for them. But if you can't find the common ground, you can't put it in a situation. And I do think it's not just around like politics obviously, but there's like such polarizing ideas. Like it's very hard to find common ground in all kinds of things today. but if you can't say, where is our commonality here? Or the person is not open to like the type of dialogue that Pope Francis like so beautifully discusses in fertility tv. Like just to be open to one another. You kinda have to sometimes I think call it, and I think that's the hardest part. I think we, we grieve the loss of people, like the physical loss of people. We grieve the loss of beautiful, like relationships. I don't think we have a society that opens us up to allow us to grieve the loss of a friendship. Like, it's like, you're not over it. And I'm like, no, I'm still really sad about what happened with this friendship. I don't think we give ourselves the space. There's not. there aren't sympathy cards of like, I'm sorry, you broke up. That friendship, like those don't exist in the hallmark world. Like, I just don't think we give us a space to breed that type of boss too.

3

Yeah, I think it's a great question. I mean, I don't think there's a simple answer to it because I think, at the end of the day, we have to ask our friends too to say, is that so core a part of who you are that like. That nothing else matters. Right? and if the answer is yes, then like, okay, well. We're probably not gonna be able to have a productive conversation because we're on two different levels, right? Like, yeah. Allison back there just died, wrote this book after Virgin and talked about conceptual in commensurability, right? Like we're, people are talking say that different people are just talking at different levels, right? And they, and when you're talking at different levels and not actually dialoguing, like you're talking about. And the only answer is to like raise your voices. Like, like, you're not hearing me, this is what I'm saying. And people just started shouting at each other.'cause they're talking, I'm two different planes of existence. And so I think, I think it's really important In some of those moments to call it out and just be like. Just, you know, we gotta say here, we've been friends for 57 years. Like, can we find a way forward? that doesn't involve, you know, like having to defend which news show we watch or, you know, and I think often that, just that immediacy, is really important to just say, can we actually talk about this elephant in the room? and I also think, I don't know, for me. Humor diffuses a lot of stuff. I mean, I think it can just sort of bury things sometimes, but, but also to just be like, oh, come on. That's, I knew you would say that. I knew you would say that. you know, I, and I don't often think politics, are helpful to talk about in like a friendly way. I mean, I don't know, maybe, If we're talking about politics, we can talk about politics, but if you have a limited amount of time, right? If you have limited. I just don't think, like, oh my gosh, I'm my opinion on these deep seated, beliefs have been changed by your Facebook post.

4

Are I have seen the like Yes.

7

Yes. Thank you for sharing that video. Yeah. Yes. Totally different about insert topic.

Competition and Friendship

3

Like it just never happened, so I don't know. I think we have to just be honest about that too. So thanks for your question, Luke. We all kinds of questions I

2

know. Comes

3

sales system,

2

find, alright. I'm wondering about the ideas around competition and friendships. I got an eighth grade kid and the, it's like water. The flies in eighth grade. So, and so my wife and I was like, fine, positive friends, be a good friend. but in our lives, you know, competition has driven us to being better friends, better at our jobs as long as it doesn't get negative. Right. Too much. Frenemy is trying to define frenemy to an eighth grader is like, he's like every, that's everybody I know. Yeah. So I'm just, you know, you don't get on the underrated football team without being competitive. How those guys stay competitive and stayed friends and move towards a common bowl and kind of be positive for each other. Yeah.

6

This is long. To me, that could go either way. I mean, I, you know, my friends in high school, and I remember we played wrist once and then we never played it again because we realized that we couldn't. we couldn't handle it. Now, maybe that we, those like maybe freshman or sophomore year in high school, but, I mean, so, you know, you have to be, your friendship has to be on really solid ground before you, you go down that road, know or set, like you play risk Now, I'm not sure we could. Okay. No, I'm not, I'm excuse, anyway, so, you know, I think it can go either way. I think, you know, a subtle. A subtle competition might work, but I can say I definitely have had friendships deteriorate over competition, in my life. And,'cause we just couldn't get past it. It was just too, you know, I, so, I think, yeah. I don't know.

3

I think this is a tough one. I do think this is a tough one, and I think that's a great question. especially about how do you know, form your kids, how do you teach them what's appropriate and what's not? to me, one of the things is, I think competition is good in the moment, right? and I look at our football players and I see the ways in which they are constantly pushing each other and saying like, you know, I know you can do more and blah, blah, blah. And that's really helpful. I think, in the moment, that's a really positive and good thing. I think in the end, the real challenge is, can you be a big enough person to see other people's wins as not a zero sum gain? Yeah. Like, can you see another person's victories as like, you know what? I'm so happy for you in a sincere way, and be confident in yourself enough to say other people can have victories. And it doesn't mean that you are less of a person, right? That, that you are losing if. There. and this is tricky because I think this has gotta be tricky for parents. I'm not parent, but I, this has gotta be tricky for parents to say, you know, other people's victories don't mean your losses because other people are doing well, doesn't mean you're less of a person. I think that's a big developmental thing for kids to recognize. we can, all men we're, we can all like, you know, do well and. The level to which you can teach your kid to celebrate other people's victories and to say like, I am so happy for you. That is really awesome. And I think people are often surprised by that. because we adults behave so badly, so much of the time, right? and are just so like, terrible about that. They're like, I can't believe that person got the promotion. And they're like, oh, that's a good thing for them, you know? there's not a limited number of promotions in the world. I think in as much as we can teach them to do that, I think you are taking a twist on competition. That can be really helpful.

Concluding Thoughts on Friendship

6

I, if I can again, speak about faith. this is where the role and mystery of vocation comes in. Is that you? Yeah. A little competition might be good for motivation to, once again help to become the best version of yourself. But also thinking about your life as and your journey and your achievements as part of your vocation story. That this is who God is calling you to be and that it isn't at the expense of somebody else. You have your own story. Follow your own story and don't, and encourage them and help them to. Follow their own story. and we're all called to be who we're called to be, and we're all making a contribution. And one person, getting into Notre Dame and one person. Now, I don't mean to take it back to the business, but this is so often where I encounter this, especially in my friends from undergrad who kids are now all coming up and coming into Notre Dame. You know, those who get in, those who don't, and then they, you know, it doesn't mean you're a bad kid. It doesn't mean that you're gonna have a terrible life. It means that this is not part of your story, coming to Notre Dame or maybe it is if you are coming. but it, I mean, that goes for so many other things. Not winning this award is part of your story, so we have to figure out how that fits. and so that it's a question of discernment. And then, and faith.

3

We're out of time. I, we are, I wanna just, leave us with, I, I think I, remind our, just to add on to that, I remind our student athletes all the time that, win or lose, their beloved child of God, that's who they are, the truest and their most, core, and nothing that. You say your do in life can change that. And so to rest in that identity I think is really important. So,

4

and also just like remind yourself of that. I just think that's so much that, right? Yeah. As we remind the children that whether they're in your home, those are junior office, but I think it's sometimes just reminding yourself that every day too. Like, I'm beloved, I've seen, I'm invalue and valued and I'm worthy of love and worthy of friendship as well. Yeah.

3

I wanna say thanks to our panelists today. Thank you very much for Great. Have a good.