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Aquinas at 800, Part 8: The Christology of Demons

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Episode Topic: The Christology of Demons

What can be known about Jesus Christ intellectually when one doesn’t believe in Him? What exactly did the demons in the Gospels know about Jesus’ identity? Did they see Jesus as a prophet or as a promised Messiah? Consider the case of demons, as St. Thomas Aquinas did, to gain a better understanding, by way of contrast, of what it means to truly know Jesus Christ.

Featured Speakers:

  • Fr. Serge-Thomas Bonino, O.P., Pontifical University of Saint Thomas Aquinas

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/8f53fe.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Aquinas at 800.

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Introduction and Speaker Background

1

My name is Therese Corey. I'm the director of the Meritan Center here at the University of Notre Dame. And it's a great pleasure and an honor to be able to introduce our second keynote speaker of the conference. Father Sege Tamma Bonino, one of the greatest hetic theologians of our time. Father Bonino is a professor of philosophy at the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas. Having previously served as the Secretary of the International Theological Commission, he is now the president of the Pontifical Academy of St. Thomas Aquinas, which was founded by Leo the 13th as the Vatican's Scholarly Institution for studying Aquinas theology and philosophy where I've had the honor to work with him for the past few years. And, as president of the Pontifical Academy, father Bonino has exemplified the most. Um, exemplary organizational skills as well as great tion and wisdom. And his, leadership has just been wonderful, really for the Pontifical Academy. As a scholar of Aquinas with great range and versatility, father Bono's work surely needs no introduction to this assembly. But let me mention in any case some of his contributions. So, one area in which Father Bonino has written broadly is on Latin medieval philosophy. He wrote the in 2015. He's also written on Aquinas's reception of the church fathers, and on aquinas's engagement with scripture, including the Hex sameon, the Gospel of John, the Book of Job, and most recently, the Song of Songs. His reading, the Song of Songs with Thomas Aquinas was recently published in 2022, and I saw it on the book table for CUA press. So if you haven't got a copy of it, um, yet, now is your chance. Other topics that he's published on include Predestination and Providence, the Theology of Truth, and in fact, he's translated part of Aquinas's Day Ate into French, a Herculean Task, and um, he's also ri written on the priesthood and he had some wonderful pieces on what it means to be aist. In fact, one of my first encounters with his writings as a graduate student was his wonderful article to be aist published in Nova Vera, which I had the privilege of translating and which beautifully expresses the way in which our access to truth is mediated through a history and a community of reception. Finally, of course Father Bonino is well known for his work on geology, including his seminal book, angels and Demons, a Catholic introduction from 2016, also available at the CUA press book table. And today he returns to this area from an intriguing angle speaking to us on the topic of the Christology of the demons. Please help me. We welcome Father Bonino to the podium,

The Demons' Understanding of Jesus Christ

2

so you are very excited by demons. Thank you. Re and thank you for your can presentation. Thanks to the organizer of this conference for inviting me. I am happy to celebrate with the top. American Thomas, the Centenary of Saint Thomas birth. This would probably be the last centenary for me and I am happy to bring a special French touch, at least by my pronunciation of English. What can you know about Jesus Christ when you are very smart, but don't believe in him? I mean, when you do not recognize Jesus Christ as you beloved Lord and God, to answer the question, I could have taken the example of a rationalist ext of the gospels, such as earnest renowned, but it seemed more interesting and less polemic to consider the case of demons as presented by Aquinas. My aim is clearly not to explore the deep things of Satan ac curiosity strongly discouraged in the book of Revelation, but to gain a better understanding by way of contrast at what it means to truly know Jesus Christ. According to the Gospels demons, were among the first to perceive something of the identity of Jesus of Nazareth at the very beginning of Jesus public ministry and in clean spirit, cry out what have you to do with Earth Jesus of Nazareth, have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the holy one of God. We must already be worried of what is spoken by liars as demons are. So what exactly did the demons know? Did the demons see Jesus as a prophet? As a promised Messiah as the only son of God substantial with the Father. In fact, their Christology seems as hesitant as that of a liberal Protestant theology. During the temptation in the desert, Satan hesitates if you are the son of God. Saint Paul confirms this demonic hesitation about Jesus' identity. When speaking about God's hidden wisdom, he declares that none of the princess of the word new and the demon are among this princess of the world. For as they know it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. If as a gospel suggests Satan was pulling the strings of the patient, he appears in the end as a deceived deceive. Four. In orchestrating the death of Jesus, Satan Seals the end of his domination of our humanity. All could such an intelligent being have deceived himself to such an extent? To answer the question, let us turn to scholastic demonology. It allow for some very enlightening south experiments that go far beyond the strict domain of demonology, the study of the Christology of demon. That is to say, what did the demons know exactly about Jesus Christ involves a number of very interesting related issue that will emerge during the course of my investigation. For example, in philosophy, the epistemology of belief or the relationship between the moral orientation of the person. The accuracy of his knowledge or in theology, the relationships between nature and grace, or the meaning and consequences of the canes of the son of God. So first, I will consider Saint Thomas general thesis on the science of demons. Then in the second part, I will examine all this knowledge is applied to the reality of Jesus Christ, the incarnate world. So first point, nature and properties of the demonic knowledge let us take as our reference text Summa Theology First part question 64, article one. Question 64 deals with the consequences and punishment of the angel sin. In Article one, Aquinas ask whether because of sin. The demon's intellect is darkened by being deprived of the knowledge of all truths. Indeed, it's a common doctrine in moral theology that sins makes you stop it. Ignorance is one of the ones that affect human nature because of sin. But in earth this ignorance is largely due to the rebellion of the flesh against the spirit, which sanctions the rebellion of the spirits against God. The demon being pure spirit cannot be affected by this type of ignorance. Nevertheless, the Christian traditions affirms that the demon, because of his sin, is plunge into darkness, a victim of his blindness. How can we understand this St. Thomas status? Sweet says this. Each relates to one of the three types of knowledge of truth, which Aquinas distinguishes as follows, is a text number one in your and how the knowledge of truths is twofold, one which comes of nature and one which comes of grace. The knowledge which comes of grace is likewise twofold. The first is pure peculating as when divine secrets are imparted to an individual, the author is effective and produces love of God, which knowledge properly belongs to the gift of the wisdom. Point one, one Natural knowledge remains intact in its perfection. The first thesis concerns the natural knowledge of the angel turned demon is a text number two, the first of the three of the three kinds of knowledge. Was neither taken away nor listened in the demons. Four, it followed from the very nature of the angel, who, according to his nature, is an intell intellectual mind. Since an account of the simplicity of his substance, nothing can be withdrawn from his nature to us. To punish him by subtracting from his natural powers as a man is punished by being deprived of an hand or a food or of something else. Old fashioned criminal law therefore die, is says that the natural gifts remain entirely in them. Consequently, thy natural knowledge was not diminished. This text calls for three comments, first to punish the demon for his sin. God removes from him grace. That is a supernatural principle of supernatural operations which he had received at the time of hiss initial elevation to the supernatural. On the other end, the demon is not the prive of the principle of his natural cognitive operation. That is a light of the intellect and the innate species because they are one and the same with him. The angel is pure intellect by nature. His nature will have to be destroyed for him to stop thinking. The demon's natural knowledge therefore remains intact. Second comment. Aquinas back accepts his thesis with the authority of ssis who said of demons. We do not say that the angelic gift given to them have ever been changed for they are intact and most brilliant. Even if the demon no longer sees his gifts, Saint Thomas takes up here, the central statement, natural in a man, Integra. And as we know, not only does the statement set as the question of the persistence of demons, natural knowledge, but it also becomes for Aquinas, a fundamental action for its defini defining of the general relationships between nature and grace. Third, comments Taken without nuance, the Istic thesis could be problematic, especially in the light of the later debates on the supernatural. It seems to support the idea of a natural order close in on itself, which is ultimately unaffected by the choices made in the supernatural order. However, the situation is far more complex. The fact that the demons will stubbornly opposes is one true last end, which is supernatural reflects on its natural knowledge, at least in two ways. On the one end, the natural knowledge is not only speculative, but also practical and effective order to action for the good. Now, the denial of the true supernatural end has obviously a strong impact on this natural effective knowledge and renders it highly imperfect on the other end. The angel speculative natural knowledge has two aspects. First, there is innate infallible knowledge. He possesses act from the moment of his creation. For instance, his knowledge of God's existence. Second, the knowledge in a in naturally acquirers. Over time, we will see all about the secret of earth and contingent futures. Now, after seen error becomes possible for the angel in his second kind of knowledge, indeed only God, that God alone can know with certainty the south of the earth and contingent futures. Not only is our future truly present in his eternity, but God being the first transcendent cause of contingent future evidence knows them infallibly by knowing himself as a cause. Angels on the other end do not precise direct causality on either contingent future evidence or FreeWheel movement. They can, however, conjecture the future or the secret of the heart based on the natural knowledge of the various factors that influence, but never fully determine the action of the contingent course. And the broader this knowledge, the greater the possibilities and the conjecture will prove correct without ever reaching certainty. Now, an ear is a moral dimension of knowledge comes into play. The engine naturally knows the limits of this natural knowledge of the future and the secret of the heart. The angel knows that it is only con conjecture and therefore it commits its judgment only in ion. But. This is where error can creep in. If the demon asserts or denies too quickly, such error is not due to a defect of intelligence, but to a moral deficiency. Namely, the ace of which is perverse will is guilty for us. Aced is part of the sin of imprudence, consisting of the culpable insufficiency of the deliberation necessary for right action. Admittedly, the angel does not deliberate assert but is. Aced means here, not considering the limits of one's knowledge and making an absolute judgment despite this uncertainty. Point. One, two, natural knowledge of the supernatural. The second and third thesis of St. Thomas deal with supernatural knowledge, speculative or practical text. Number three, the second kind of knowledge which come of grace and consists in speculation has not been utterly taken away from them, but lessen because of these divine secrets, only so much is revealed to them as is necessary. And this is done either by means of anger or through some temporal effects of divine power. As a guest in says, but not in the same degree as to the holy angel, to who many more things are revealed and more fully in the world himself. But of the third knowledge as likewise of charity, they are utterly deprived. So there is no problem with the third thesis. That the demon is deprived of affective taste and knowledge, the wisdom which is based on charity. On the other hand, the wording of the second thesis is equivocal. It could lead us to believe that demons retain some principle of supernatural knowledge, albeit in diminish one. However, we must exclude the possibilities that the demons knowledge of supernatural reality may derive from a supernatural principle as, for instance, an infused virtue. The face of demons, as we shall see soon, is in no way a diminished survival of the theological phase. They are before the fall. The demon only has a formally natural knowledge of a materially supernatural object. Text number four, it's a text from EZ St. Thomas Speak speaks of a knowledge that is supernatural only on the level of the material object demons, in fact, know the revealed, revealed supernatural mysteries of the trinity, the incarnation by virtue of a natural and acquire, acquired belief and faith in the way that the heretics believe that in this knowledge, the formal motive for believing is not divine revelation, but either the believers own will or a natural reason, which compares intelligence to belief. One. Three, the sources of natural knowledge of the supernatural. According to question 64, article one, this natural knowledge of the supernatural comes from two sources. The first is angelic revelation. The Holy Hs contemp contemplates the divine sense and see in it in a more or less extensive way, the Russianist day. That is God's free providential designs. They can communicate to demons. A limited knowledge of this design with the hem of making demons serve despite themselves, the designs of providence. The second source is taken from, I quote, some temporal effects of divine power. In fact, the demon can naturally acquired knowledge. Of certain facts or evidence that occur in time, and we shall the effects of divine power from these facts. And by his natural knowledge, the demon gains access to certain truths of the supernatural order. For example, he can form an idea of the identity of Jesus Christ from the miracles he see he sees in perform. But how does the angel acquire knowledge of temporal evidence? How does the angel or the demon see the miracle of Jesus? In effect, the angel is pure spirit and unlike man, he does not derive his knowledge from things through experience by extraction. He knows all that is know. Through the innate species he possesses from the moment of his creation and which are created participation in God's creative ideas to explain of the angel progressively against knowledge of temporal heaven. Through this innate species, Aquinas puts for a rather septal and difficult theory. The preexisting. The preexisting innate species does not accurately represent the contingent event in such a way as to procure present knowledge of it until the moment when the event occurs. For example, from the moment of cre of its creation, the angel has a idea of the dog. Which contains virtually anything that can happen to a canine individual. Among other things, the fact that a canine individual, namely Snoopy crosses the Notre Dame University campus on Monday at four o'clock, but as long as the singular event does not occur in the course of time, there is not actual V relationship of Simular similarity between the species, co payable of representing it and the event itself. And so there is no knowledge. He the species but not the knowledge. It's quite difficult to understand. The angel knows the heaven by mean of his innate species. Only when that heaven occurs. Whatever the ways in which demons come to no present events, the multiplication of this knowledge over time produces in demon a kind of experience that is a knowledge resulting from the accumulation or confrontation of information. In this way, the demon gradually refines his knowledge. For instance, by observing the way in which you react to a certain kind of repeated temptation, for instance, in front of a succulent donut, he can conjecture you weak points. Point one four, the face of demons, the thesis as a, that a demon's knowledge of material. Supernatural truths is a formally natural knowledge. Seems however, to clash with the statement in the epistle of St. James. The demons believe and rumble, but the face of demon is not a remnant of the supernatural face. They are before the fall. It is neither comparable to the formless face that is faced, not informed by charity, which can remain in the sinner. When is seen is not a sin of infidelity. EZ in the text number four, brings this face closer to the face of the heretic, which is not theological phase at all, but pure human opinion. But it's not perfectly white. I don't like to criticize bans, but on this point, uh, is wrong. So. Because unlike the Retics opinion, the demons belief remain in the category of faith is truly a sort of faith. It's not an opinion. In fact, the devil gives his intellectual ascent to supernatural truths that they cannot see on the grounds that they are revealed by God, who cannot deceive is compelled to do so by the evidence of the science that attest to this divine origin. Of course, as with any belief, the wheel must move the intelligence to ascend to the truth. It cannot see that in the case of the demon. This voluntary act is not a matter of pious effect. That is love for the things to be believed, but it is a pure, an effect of pure self love. It cannot consent to the harm that would result from leaving the intellect in suspense. Even if he aids the truth, he believes he cannot help. Believing, let us know applies the general account of demonic knowledge to Christology. So second part, the demon and the mystery of Jesus Christ. There are three phases in the revelation of Jesus Christ, be first incarnation during the life of Christ and after his resurrection, the Christology of demons evolves in accordance with these three phases. So point. To one for knowledge of the incarnation, unless you want to make the incarnation. The very reason for Satan's scene, which is not Aquinas's position, it does not seem that the supernatural face that all angels are at the moment of the trial of their trial include any season to do with Jesus Christ. The sin of the angel is not related to the person of Jesus Christ. Once they have entered the beatific vision, the Holy Angel are partially acquainted with the free designs of God in which they are called to collaborate, and of which the incarnation is a pivot. They even progress in their knowledge of the concrete modalities of the incarnation by virtue of illuminations internal to the angelic society. As for the demons, even if they return on the sole basis of the natural knowledge, the confused knowledge of the Trinity's Salvific wheel, they are somewhat in the position of the German army before the day. They know that something big is about to happen, but they don't know where, when, or even or God is going to act. They're only, they only know because of the Old Testament prophecies that the Messiah is to come and that will mark the end of their empire of the mankind. The son of God in his loneliness. What the demon could not know ap priori was that the Messiah will be in person, the only son of God, and that he will save human mankind through the basement of his patient by concealing his divine identity, but as a humility of the human condition, Jesus Christ deceived Satan. If the demon explained the quietness at no perfectly, and certainly first that Jesus Christ was a son of God, and second, what the effect of the patient will be, they will never have caused a Lord of glory to be crucified. It was the for fitting for Jesus Christ, while manifesting himself as sent by God Toro the face of deliverers to conceal his divinity and thees of human weakness to deceive or at least make the devil doubt. Let us take a closer look at what this means. First of all, the miracles of Jesus' conception and virgin birth could be witnessed by the devil since they took actually place in physical world. It's not a myth, it's a real event. Therefore, Saint Thomas re must resort to positing an additional miracle. God had to province the devil, at least for a time from knowing what he naturally could and should have. The, the episode of Jesus' Temptation in the desert is more certainly another key point for our discussion. The temptation before aiming to induce evil is for the purpose of gaining knowledge. We tempt to find out what we do not yet know. This is all during examinations. The professor temps the student to see just all father knowledge goes up or father ignorance goes down. So what did Satan want to know about Jesus Christ? That Jesus was the promised Messiah. Satan seems to know early on, but is the son of God for Aquinas Satan depths. On the one end, it suspects or conjecture based on his observation, that Jesus is the son of God. To be sure he pushes Jesus to perform acts of, of power proper to God, such as turning stones into bread on the other end. The human weakness that he sees in Jesus, such as suffering from hunger prevents him from concluding with certainty. The canes, the sense canes is no less a stumbling block for Satan, that it was for the Greeks in the search for wisdom or for the Jews desiring manifestation of power Point

3

two

2

three. The demon and the cross. But suppose the demons knew at least by conjecture of the divinity of Jesus Christ, how could they have attempted to cause his death? Did they not suspect that it'll mark the end of their empire? Saint Thomas following sambi? Think as they did not in the devil's mind. According to Aquinas, the put to death of the son of God and the end of the devil's own and empire must be dissociated it text number five, his reason, therefore for persuing, the Jews to classify him. Was not that he deemed him not to be Christ or the son of God, but because he did not foresee that he would be the loser by his death. Indeed, the devil failed to perceive the link which exists in the free wheel of God between the death of the Son of God and the redemption of mankind. In his commentary, Katan developed this interesting hypothesis at length. The devs knowledge was no more than a forced belief. Now, EPIs Epistemologically speaking such knowledge does not give rise to demonstrative science. It allows us to hold individual truths in succession, but not to perceive the links. Between the truth, knowing that Jesus is the son of God did not therefore imply knowledge of the mystery of redemption through the cross. This is how Kan presence devil's rezoning text number six. So Satan, who speaks if it, if he is not God, but Maia, who is only a man, I will strike him down. And if he is true God, it will be no small thing to win this victory against God himself. And then we will see what God does. In fact, the devil did see and it cost him after Christ resurrection, the Devil's Christology is not fixed. He knows that Jesus Christ is the true son of God and the Savior. Has put an to his. Let us conclude Jesus, ask his disciples this question. Who do people think the son of man is? Is the first take Natural knowledge. The diversity and superfic superficiality of the answers show all difficulties for men when left to their own devices to form an acurate idea about Jesus. So David on the other one knew more. Then Jesus asks the apostles, but who am I to you? Simon Peter replied, you are the Christ, the Son of the living God. In reply, Jesus said to him, blessed are you Simon, son of Jonah. For the revelations that has come to you is not from flesh and blood, but from my father in heaven. The second stage, knowledge by grace, only a gift of grace from the Father gives access to Jesus full identity. But as the very case of St. Peter shows this first grace of illumination is not enough, it's not enough to reach the third stage to overcome the scandal of the cross, which doubles the scandal of incarnation as we saw the devil with all his intelligence was baffled by the son's basement in his patient as believers who already have the grace of knowing the true identity of the son of God. We need also an extra misuse of grace to welcome in our life, the wisdom of the cross, and enter the full understanding of the mystery of Lord Jesus Christ. A mystery hidden from the wise and learned and revealed to little children, as was Aquinas. Thank you.

1

So we're going to, do the question and answers just the way we did last night. If you could line up behind the two microphones there and that will allow everybody to be able to hear in the room. Want me to call on them or do you like to call?

3

no, it's right to, I try to, I.

2

Help. So thank you, but speak slowly.

4

So, if the devil didn't, uh, realize the effects of the crucifixion, why was it that he tried to tempt Jesus in the garden, not to go through with it?

3

So, I, I don't understand the, some words, sorry. Um, could you repeat, please?

4

Yes. So that the devil didn't realize what the effect of the crucifixion would be. Yes. Uh, so I was wondering then why he tempted Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, not to go through with the crucifixion.

2

Well, does the gospel says, say that, the devil tempt Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. The demon is not directly present in jets. Well, he is present because, but I, I think that the, Aquinas says that for temptation, we do not need the demon flesh and ignorance are sufficient. So, we have not, uh, we have not to think that every time there is a temptation, this temptations comes from the demon. And in the, the garden just, I am not sure that according to the gospels, the temptation of, of Jesus is a strict, uh, demonic temptation.

4

Thank you.

2

Even if perhaps you are, you are true because in, uh, the Gospel of Luke. After the temptation in the desert, uh, Luke, said that the devil retire until the hour of the patient. So, uh, the demon is clearly present in the patient, but perhaps not in the garden of Gsem

5

father. So, Sima over here. Oh, thank you so much. I just want to see if I can understand a little bit more this, uh, remainder of faith or remainder of the grace of knowledge in the fallen angel. So if I understood you correctly, it is not habitual faith or the infused habit of faith, which is extinguished, but it is not merely acquired natural knowledge through understanding the activity of God by inference. Although that is present. But in addition, there's something like a remainder of understanding of the mystery of God from the initial creation and grace. I think that's there. I, well, let me just say that I also see Aquinas mentions that in watching the good angels who have the same nature, generally speaking, they can infer that there's some kind of revealed truth that they're referring to. Mm-hmm. And then they also have this more empirical, as it were, or experimental knowledge of the omnipotence, omnipotent activity of God. But just this first part, I'm most especially interested, if you could say more, it's something more than what Banya says, but it's not the infused habit of faith. Is it a remainder of those who had the faith but now only faintly, remember supernatural truths?

3

Hmm.

2

Well, there are two SIGs. The first, uh. The error, I am terrified. But the error of, is to reduce, the knowledge of the demon to an opinion. Whereas there is a structure of an act of face that is, they believe what Aquinas says. They believe what the churches, what the church teaches because they know and they not see that. the church is teaching what, God reveals. So it's a compelled face, but it's not a supernatural face. Uh, it's a natural face. In some sense.

5

So it's kind of a material participation in the su in the supernatural object. Yes.'cause they're smart enough that they know it comes from God, but they don't consent to the formal object and love the truth. Yeah. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. Yeah. Per,

2

perhaps we can take, uh, uh, comparation, someone will as lost the face. Has lost the face, keeps some information about, uh, Jesus, about Trinity. Even if it's he does not, give his assets to this. This is a natural knowledge. well it was the example of the, Protestant exec. We will read the, the gospel, without the face of the church. but the question is all is. Natural knowledge or supernatural possible. what form of knowledge is it? And I think, in the demon, it's a sort of, natural face. It's not an opinion as for the alytic, but it's a natural face in some sense.

5

Thank you.

6

thank you very much. My question was about the Trinity. So like human beings acquire, like, reveal knowledge of the Trinity through Christ. What about the demons in this case? Maybe you said something that I missed, but is, is the case that the lack of knowledge about the Sal mission of Christ is also a lack of knowledge about the Trinity or the or? There is a prior natural knowledge of the Trinity.

3

Well, um,

2

and um, when they, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is really the sort of God after resurrection. First a conjecture. he was the son of God, but after resurrection, they have, certainty that is, the son of God. So that they have knowledge of tri, of Trinity, of the mis verse Trinity. it's true that, uh, banez in his text said that they keep some, reminder of, the trinity. They, uh, they keep some, something which remains of the knowledge of Trinity in the face they add before the fall, because, uh, it's a very difficult point for, uh, Christian people. But, demons, uh, before the fall have had faith. because, uh, the trial, the choice for the supernatural, required phase, so, uh, it's difficult to understand all they have at face and return only, some natural knowledge from the phase they have had, before. And the Trinity, I don't know if, uh, they have this idea of, uh, the Trinity. Thanks John.

7

Uh, thank you Father Bonino. Uh, this is a bit of a follow up, the father Thomas Joseph's, question, his question, if I understood it, focused Mo ma mainly on the side of intellect, vis-a-vis faith being a condition of the intellect. And, I have to admit, during the talk I was tempted. to say, oh, well then it must be opinion. So I was glad to hear that that's wrong and you have kept me from temptation. Yeah. but what I'm wondering about then, in terms of what you said, both during the talk and then in response to Father Thomas Joseph, as a, as I understand Thomas, what distinguishes opinion as a condition of the intellect from faith is that faith has the firm ascent, but the cause of it, the compulsion to firm ascent comes from the will. So, I'm wondering in the case of the demons, if it's faith and if that structure still applies, that the reason it's not opinion as bonnets might have it, is that the intellect does firmly ascent. To these material truths, material, supernatural truths. It does ascent to them. But the cause of the ascent of the demons, intellect is their wills. Mm-hmm. And what it is about their wills, since they lack charity, what is it about the will that can cause that firm ascent of the demon, such that it's faith not opinion?

2

So for a quietness, uh, the answer is, is clear. It's a selfish law for themselves, which, uh, moves the demons to ascent because, to remain in su suspense, not to a fear affirm will be a evil, uh, will be something, which arms the intellect of the demons. It's not possible to. Have such signs of the truth and non-consent to the truth. So, it's to, to prevent such, evil in their intellect that they want to ascend to the truth. They do not like, they do not love. So, there is, an interation of the wheel, but the wheel moved by selfish interest. They went to keep, the intellect, in a situation which is not, sort of torture because what they see at, what they do not wanna see. So.

7

Well, thank you. It sounds like they're relieving their anxiety. Yeah. Um, that they might suffer from a kind of anxiety. Thank you.

9

So I have more questions about what the, the demons believe, let's say. you've been emphasizing how what they believe is sort of leftover or remains from what they had before they fell. But I'm looking at text three here and it says, it says that divine secrets, they have divine secret of the divine secrets only so much as is revealed to them, as is necessary. That's quantum a quartet. Yeah. So I'm wondering what's involved there, and I'm wondering if they are allowed to remember, or perhaps additionally have revealed to them things that if once they know these things, then they will play their part in the divine plan of salvation. So maybe an angel will reveal to another angel, something that will lead the angel to act towards Christ in a certain way. Yes. So I think we

2

have to distinguish between the situation before the fall, the knowledge they had as a knowledge phase. what was, the content of this phase is very difficult to d for instance. Well, this is a great question because as we can, guess, demonology or ideology, touches all the great question of theology, for instance, the question of, did Jesus Christ, was Jesus Christ presence in the content of the face of the angel before the fall? Scotties certainly would, said yes. The sin of Angel, is a sin, against Christ in some sense. But in the domestic tradition, I think, uh, if the redemption is a true, meaning of the incarnation. So before the fall of Angel and before the fall of man, there is no, a clear christological, notion. even if there is an idea of demonization because, I think the demons knows, universal will of, of salvation of God, uh, which was present before the fall. Well, I, I forget the second part of your question.

9

I was just wondering whether what the demons know is designed by God. Yes. to get them to play the role in the crucifixion or whatever.

2

So, uh, in the first, before the four, we have responded, we have, answer after the four, demon. It's a great ID in Aquinas and in Augustine, uh, demons, can be useful in some sense in spite of them. uh, and, uh, so, the Aleh can communicate some truths, some truth about evidence that are necessary for the demons to act in such a way that as their action can be, uh, useful, for, uh, the church or for, uh, yeah, the, designers of God. Yeah.

9

Okay. Good. Yeah, that's what, thank you.

10

Thank you, father. My question concerns the distinction between the speculative and effective knowledge. I think, uh, as aist I can be honest and admit that sometimes, I'm better at communicating speculative knowledge of God rather than the effective knowledge, which is obviously the goal. But I'm curious to know, aside from praying for greater gift of wisdom to be given, how is it that this speculative knowledge can become effective in those whose wills are not firmly, opposed to the will of God as are the demons? So for us humans, in, in via, how does the speculative become effective? Do you find any insight from this, uh,

2

demonology Well, speculative knowledge can. Become, uh, effective or tasty knowledge through the, the gift of grace. So it's necessary. the speculative, uh, knowledge, can remain on the level of natural knowledge, even if there is a supernatural, speculative knowledge. But for the, the wisdom, wisdom, for Aquinas is a gift of the Holy Spirit. So, uh, it's necessary that grace, operate, to, uh, bring our knowledge to a true effective knowledge by the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is a love in our heart. So, there is no direct causality between speculative knowledge. I can be a very. Good theology. I'm not sure that it'll be a very good theology, with a very, uh, smart knowledge of Trinity and the distinction of the person through the relation and so on. And, I can lack the love of God. so it's clear that the spiritual life is an interaction between speculative knowledge that can, direct and give orientation to our effective, dimension and the effective side of our, our life. I think that Aquinas is a good example of this, interaction connection between the speculative, knowledge and the spiritual one, the wisdom.

6

Thank you.

3

Professor,

11

father, thank you so much. That was a wonderful talk. I, I, I have a couple of very simple minded questions. So the first question is this, you talk about what the demons know and how they know it. so it sounds to me, and I may be misunderstanding you, as if at this point in Salvation history, the demons know pretty much everything that would fall under the general rubric of, of the order of salvation. They know that Jesus is the son of God. They know about the resurrection, they know about the Trinity. I I have two questions, and the one is, what, is there anything they don't know, uh, that we would sort of include under faith? I mean details, yes, but anything big, and the other question is, I, it's, it's a worry really more than a question. The more we talk about this, the less it sounds like faith. and the theological virtue of faith, our faith is uncertain knowledge. The demons, it sounds like the demons have certain knowledge. We as sent to faith out of love, the demons as sent to faith against their will. they seem to know far more than we do, uh, through, through either direct revelation or inference. So I, I have to just ask why are we calling this faith? Um, what does it mean to call it faith in, in comparison to what we think of as the theological virtue of faith?

2

What, on the first, question, demons do not know everything. So, uh, for Aquinas, for instance, the secret of the heart is absolutely, annoyed by the demons. Uh, it's very important. and the work of grace in the heart of the believers is absolutely unknown by the demons. Demons know only the exterior signs, for instance. He knows that, the sister is very, how should I say, is devoted to, to help people and so on is as a great cha. He can deduce. Yeah, she has a great charity, but he cannot see the charity in the, ah, so, it's the same with the mystery of Jesus Christ, uh, the action of Jesus Christ, the action of the Holy Spirit, the action of grace in the church. It's not known by the demons, except through the effects. They can deduce some things, but they cannot see. Uh, for instance, I am sure that, certain, some sense, some very humble sense, the demon is not able to see the holiness because this is, uh, the life hidden in Christ. And this inner life is not accessible to observation. It's not accessible to deduction by signs. And so, uh, the, the most profound life of Christ in the heart of the believers is something the demon cannot know. So he does not know everything. Uh, the most important thing. It doesn't know.

8

Father Bonino, thank you very much for your talk. Uh, I had a question, about, text five where, the citation of bead occurs. Uh, it says, if the devil persuaded the Jews, and I thought, a question occurred to me, in constructive theological work today. yeah. You know, is it helpful or important to ever make, you know, distinctions perhaps that are, that are important to the modern, uh, teaching of the church? I'm mindful of a correspondence and Aquinas that might be relevant, where he says that, the elders of the Jews. we're the ones who pressed for the death of Christ. Yeah. And so that seemed to correspond also to aspects of Nostra ate. Uh, and also in, uh, th de Pars 47, uh, there's this notion also of the Gentiles being involved, in the death of Christ. So it just occurred to me that I wondered if some of those distinctions that are actually in Thomas and also relevant are, you know, ever helpful for, references like this?

2

Yes. Well, it's clear that Text five is a quotation from Beads, the Venerable. So, uh, Aquinas is not at all original on the, explanation of the part of Jews in the patient of Christ. it was a common doctrine that Jews was guilty in some sense of, the death of Christ. but, as you said. Aquinas, is able to distinguish, uh, the chiefs, the head of the people who, uh, according to him was, uh, well, it is something, uh, we have to use with prudence. But he compare, the knowledge of demons with the knowledge of the, chiefs of the Jews, people. he said, the Jew as a, the chiefs of the, the leaders of the, people were able to know through the prophecies and through the miracle, performed by Jesus that he was the Messiah and that he was something more than the Messiah. But it's true that Aquinas, diminish, the responsibility of the. Low people. They was not responsible, of the death of Christ. But, I repeat, I, I am convinced that Aquinas is not at all original on this board and the general, medieval theology, uh, which, uh, develops this, uh, interpretation of the, the place of Jews in Christ's patient.

1

Thank you, father Bonino.

Thank.