Leadership in Public Conversation, Part 6: Leading with Integrity and Purpose

Episode Topic: Leading with Integrity and Purpose (https://go.nd.edu/87603e)

During this installment of Leadership in Public Conversation, hear about leadership from a global perspective from Claudio Orrego, Governor of the Santiago Metropolitan Region in Chile. Sharing about his experience attending Holy Cross schools growing up in Santiago, he realized at a young age that he wanted to serve. With degrees in Legal Sciences and Public Policy, his political career has spanned nearly 30 years, and he attributes both his longevity and impact to having a strong purpose. He shared the importance of serving others as a primary motivation for public service, and stressed the importance of all people to lead with hope, peace, and justice – fighting for the human rights of others.

Featured Speakers:
- Tom Schreier '84, University of Notre Dame
- Claudio Orrego, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Chile

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/29530a.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Leadership in Public Conversation. (https://go.nd.edu/9002c4)

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Transcript

Introduction and Welcome

0:06

For those of you who don't know me, I'm John Duffy, I'm the director. I have the privilege of serving as the director of the Inspired Leadership Initiative. So in addition to welcoming all of you back, we're welcoming, welcoming back, someone very special who for this inspired leadership conversation. Inspiring conversation is going to be our Conversant, our lead conversant, and we'll be. taking or offering questions. Questions to the governor who will be here any moment now? Any moment he should be walking in that door. So the man who needs no introduction at ILII will introduce. Reer Tom. So I will take a seat here as soon as Claudio uh comes, but thank you John. it really is a privilege to be back here today to moderate this discussion, Claudio, but Claudio serves as the governor of the Santiago Metropolitan Region, um, a role that he's held since 2021. It is one of the top elected, uh, roles in Chile. Um. Prior to serving in this role, he served as the, a minister to President Ricardo La Lagos and, uh, the former mayor of the Commune of Pen Loing, he received degrees from the Catholic University of Chile and a Master's in Public Policy from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. I had the opportunity to first meet him in 2019 when he was a visiting fellow at Notre Dame's Kellogg Institute. And that was a really wonderful opportunity, um, largely because of the fact that, uh, he had such a great relationship, has such a great relationship with Steve to interact with him, uh, quite a bit. I think you'll get a real sense of, not only the politician, but also the person, uh, that Claudio is, and I'm sure he'll talk to you that as is the case in much of the world, Chilean politics are in a bit of a disrupted state as well. So you're gonna get a really good sense of what's happening. You know, we all get a, a sense of what's happening here in the United States, but you're gonna get a really good sense, hopefully through our conversation of what's happening there as well and how he has, uh, approached, all of that. So, with that, I'm gonna just cross my fingers and hope that that little bit of hubbub that I hear out there is Claudio and, uh, then we'll get started. Alright. So, um, what I thought I'd start with, because it really struck me when I had the opportunity to meet you in 2019. Is the fact that you actually have a nice degree of connectedness, uh, to this institution and the order behind this institution as a result of your education and other things. Can you just maybe spend the moment, I think that'll help to ground you bit for this audience? Well, first of all, lemme just thank them for the invitation. It's really like a gift to me to come back to Notre Dame. That's probably, he said, you know, I'm the governor of Santiago, so I don't have that much time to go out and to reflect and to meet interesting people. And to come to places that have a lot of significance to do, and this is one of them. So thank you very much. I'm very, very happy. And it's my honor also to share my life with people who have inspired other people also in their lives. So thank you and I hope to be some of you during the next couple of years. And as was mentioning, I, I study in, in Sango, Chile, uh, in George's college. Holy high school, elementary school, so I 14 years of Holy Cross preaching contact. The, like, the march of my school is the same March as Notre Dame, so with different words. So say the same thing. But we had it in, you know, for St. Georgia. So it was, it's kind of funny. That is funny. Uh, so since then, you know, I, uh, I met many, many, you know, docent and we more priests of, uh, holy Cross in Chile that have worked here or studied here or went to the seminary here. Then I had a couple of, uh, you know, opportunities to come the last one, three years ago, right before I was elected governor. Uh, I came here for, you know, five months to the Kellogg Institute. Uh, and that was kind of, you know, the, one of the highlights in my relationship with Notre Dame. But it, what is it? It was, you know, the most important thing was not only meeting the priests, but the spirituality that we, uh, gain from these priests. Uh, we, at least in Chile, and I think it's the same case of Notre Dame. We believe in a very incarnated faith, uh, where sons and daughters of the, Catholic social doctrine, I'm so happy that the new Pope has the, you know, followed the path of Leon, uh, the 13th, and Reverend Novarum, because for us in Latin America, you know, trying to mix faith and the contact with reality and the fight against poverty and the, the struggle for human rights, it's just one same thing. Uh, it's not two separate things. I remember, you know, growing up in high school and, for me it was so, so, uh, important, this idea of the gospel that we cannot say that we love a God, that we don't see if we're not able to love our neighbors that we see. Uh, and in the case of that time in Chile, you know, we're talking about the eighties, uh, late dictatorship. and we had a, you know, economic recession. So, you know, we have very, you know, 33% of the people were unemployed at that time. So, so this had a very, uh, concrete phase. it was not theory. It was not only, you know, uh, ideology, it was reality. and I think that's something, you know, one of the main gifts I got from Holy Cross, to be able to understand that, you know, real commitment in real life. Life and the worship of God have to go together, if not one or the other. So maybe just to extend that a little bit, um. Got it. How much did your spirituality and a sense of vocation affect your decision to become a politician? As you know, a number of people in this audience, they come to the inspired leadership initiative in search of kind of their next vocation in search of their next act. And I just found it fascinating, especially given the fact that you had a very successful career before you moved into politics in business and tech. And so maybe just to talk a little bit about that and maybe weaving those together, I'd love to hear. You know, everything goes back to, to my, uh, student years. um, I think there are two highlights in, in this, coming closer to politics. one was the, the public reality of Chile. Uh, we had something that we called the urban colonies in our high school. So we'll go in the, in the summer to give some holiday to people that could not go out, especially poor people. I remember that time, uh, for the first time I was, you know, 15 years old. My father had just died. And for the first time in my life I realized how privileged I was, that, you know, the majority of the people didn't have what I took for granted, you know, a house food education, a family. Uh, we were, we had a kids that will, you know, actually faint, you know, uh, hands, arms because they haven't eaten for a couple of days. And for me was a, a very important moment in my life because I, I realized that I, I wanted to serve. It wasn't politics at that time. It was mainly like trying to serve the less privileged, the have nots of our society. Uh, and I was very drunk. I was very com linked with my spirituality. The second was a political thing, but with capital P it was not a political party, but we were living a dictatorship. And I remember reading, a Jesuits magazine in Chile called The Message, the experience of a group of religious people and lay people that were protesting, uh, in front of the secret police jails in Chile against torture. so when they know that someone was. They will go up and there and they will, you know, make a, a statement, a protest. And of course, they did it in a nonviolent way, which appealed to me. You know, I read Gandhi and Martin Luther King and to say, I, I don't wanna, uh, you know, use violence in my life, but I want to stand for what I think. So being 16 years old, I was 16, I was in, 11th grade, I decided to join this movement. It was a very important decision for me, not only because of the risk, obvious reason that you'll be or taken to jail or taken by the police of who had disappeared and killed and tortured many people and exiled lots of people, but also because my mom was alone. I have three sisters and my mom, and I remember one of the most important, conversations with my mom at that time. Was, you know, because she was trying to talk me outta this and say, you know, you know, please, you're the only man of the, of the family. And, and I remember telling her, you know, that I will give her the authority to allow me to know, to go not to a party, but not to decide what I will do defending human rights, because that was the consequence. Uh, she and my dad had taught me about the value of human dignity in anyone, regardless what they think. Yeah. So I joined this movement, and it was like six years that I, I was there and we were beaten and taken into prison. So I measured these two cases, you know, serving the poor and fighting for human rights as the, uh, the spark. That kind of movement, mocked me to say one thing. And I remember seeing, elder Ka a bishop in Brazil. They used to say a wonderful phrase, you know, if you give food to the poor, they, we call you a saint. If you ask, why are they poor, they will call you a communist. and I remember, you know, hearing this, I said, you know, I'm not a communist. Of course, I, I believe in democracy. But, uh, I, I not only want to feed, you know, the poor that I have around or defend some people that are being, violated in their own human rights, but I want to fight for a, a society that's more just so that that's when I decided that I wanted to move into politics in a more, but it was that way. And one of the things I did in between, and that's also a linkage with Notre Dame, is that. When I was in 11th grade, there were a group of Notre Dame associates, alumni from Notre Dame living in slum in Santiago. So I decided to go and live with them one month. And after that, when I was in university, I studied law at the Catholic University. I decided to go to live for Good. So I lived in slum in community for three years in Santiago, right way before I decided to anthrop. So my social commitment and. Conviction that human rights must to be respected for anyone anywhere in the world. They push me into politics. I remember during our visit, we went to the Museum of the Disappeared, and that was one of the most profound things for Sandy and I is just having the opportunity to see what life was like due to a number of things on the walls. And then actually there's a board there where you can touch the person on the board and their background comes up and it brings it to life. It was quite spectacular and it's just absolutely wonderful that that actually helped to motivate you towards, uh, the life that you're living today. So, do you have any advice, and you did finally decide politics was the right way to do, uh, this, you know, there are some people that have been in our program that have been very politically active. There are others that I know, as I've talked about during the course of year, year considered that. what, what, what thoughts and advice would you give to them as somebody who made that? I don't think I can give many advice, but I'll share what I've learned, eh, which is. The first thing is you have to, I mean, talking about this program, um, you have to have a very strong purpose. Eh, ego is not enough. Seeking power is not enough, because sooner than later, you will get beaten up. And the only way to stand up again is to have a greater purpose on your ego. Eh, uh, and for me, that's been the case. Uh, and Steve was here. I call him my older brother. We, we met when I was 15 and this guy was. I don't know, 18 or 20 or whatever. And so we, we know each other for a long time, and I've had in the last couple of months, a, a very harsh moment in my political career, I would say the most hard. Uh, and I've been accused of things that are of course, false. And it's been hard, eh, and, and the thing, they, the only thing that really kept me up with hope and with joy, and, you know. Commitment is that I know that it's not about my reputation, it's not about my ego, which is destroyed at this time of the year. It's about, you know, serving others and trying to stand up for a good politic politics. so I would say first to have a, a greater purpose. second, have, uh, you know, self-care, what are practices in your life, uh, unless you're able to. Protect yourself. You get carried away by, you know, selfishness, hate, uh, I dunno. Things that are not only in politics in the world, but somehow concentrated in politics. Uh uh. So for me, for example, in the last years, you know, nature, friends, meditation every year, every day, trying to meet inspiring people, talking about, you know, I have a practice of meeting and. I say a, a stranger every week just to know it. Someone that will have something that will inspire me. So those are the things I would say. I mean, in being involved in politics means many things. Very few have the Electoral Pol politics vocation, which is the, I would say the hardest. But there are like other ways of being involved in politics. Uh, uh, you know, being part of, uh, the public discussion. You know, being part of a party, be, being a public servant is part of being a policy in a way, and sitting engagement in these days, not only in the US but anywhere in the world. I mean, having citizens, that are able to stand up for what they believe. Important political commitment. and I think we needed more, uh, eh, the, I dunno who said this, uh, but, you know, uh, the thing that really scares me is not the hate, uh, and the evil of some people, but the indifference and the quietness of the majority. that's what really scares me. uh, and I always remember the know, in terms of the Holocaust. How many people knew, never said anything, and we leave that in Chile as well as in the dictatorship. You know, it didn't happen to me. but I don't know. So because it didn't happen to me or to my people, I could be quiet. No, I mean, you have to stand for what you believe in. So regardless of the type of political vocation that you may have, uh, I think there's a time right now in the world that, uh, requires every human being. Especially Christians and even more, especially Catholics, to stand up for what they believe in, with respect, with non-violence, with conviction, and with self self care. Well, yeah, it's, it's my hope, uh, Saudi that. this brief moment here when you get to be on campus will also be something that you'll characterize as, uh, being a moment of self care when you can connect and, uh, enjoy the campus and enjoy the people that are here. I certainly find it to be that way. Every time I walk on campus, there's something about my blood pressure and everything that goes in the right direction. Certainly now in the role I am as opposed to the role I was in far, So you've ta, you've talked a little bit about this, but, um, you know, in, in the few times I've had an opportunity to connect with you, what's come across to me is your humanity, your good humor. just your ability to, you know, kind of create kind of a brightness. and I mean that very seriously. Um, and, uh, I haven't had as many opportunities to interact with you, certainly as Steve, but that's very much been the case. Do you attribute that? You talked a little bit about self-care, you know, are there things from your roots, your spirituality, your upbringing? Are there other things or other things, other things you do that help you to maintain that, especially in the face of the kind of environment that you're operating in today? No, absolutely. I, I, lemme just go back to my youth years. Uh, I, I always thought that, uh, Christians, uh, should be recognized not because of their crosses or. Prayers or words, but because of their actions and because they were sides of hope. So for me, hope and faith and political commitment has been like one, bundle altogether. eh. So I always thought that, you know, I, that meant so much grief and so much, uh, sadness and anxiety and fear in our world. Somewhere has to stand up with some sign of hope. And, but because you cannot give what you don't have. So if you don't have hope yourself, if you don't have peace yourself, how can you give that and share that with the others, uh, especially in convulsive times as we're living right now, everywhere. Uh, so, you know, I I, I I would say, you know, uh, something I've experienced the last three years, which has been, uh, another gift. When we talk about purpose, we always think about like a life purpose, which is good. Of course, we need a purpose. Say the Japanese, you need a purpose. And people have a purpose regardless of the age. They feel young and they look young and they share. But I also wanted to have something more concrete, like a purpose for every year. So I started three years ago. My first year was gratitude. That was my purpose, you know, to give thanks to people that were significant to me. So I, I, I spent a whole year inviting my mom, my sisters, my sons, I have four sons, my friends, uh, different places of the country. Just to spend time and to say to them that I, and I started a, a journal that is called My Gratitude Journal. So every day I write for something. Last year was the year of self-care. So imagine it was my idea of election. I, I was elected, reelected in November of last year for my second term, eh, and I said, you know, how can you are gonna manage, you know, being in campaign on self-care? Maybe? I said, it's the best year to start, eh, and having been something that lived very fast and intense, uh, life without stopping. And I always thought, you know, sleeping four hours was covered, blah. Something I should be proud of? Uh uh. Well, uh, I think that, you know, there's a moment in life when you grow up and you learn things that, one of those things was, you know, I needed to rest. Uh, I realized that, you know, I was a scout when I was young, and then I started, you know, gonna climb mountains. I said, it's time to realize that for me, nature is a pacifying. Moment, uh, a connection moment with God and with, you know, divinity. And so I, I started, you know, climbing a, a a, a hill every week at five in the morning. Wednesdays I go climb a, you know, 1000, uh, meter tall, uh, hill, uh, meditation, for me being quiet and trying to calm my mind. It's been very key. So I, I mentioned just this, you know, things that have worked for me. I'm not giving a recipe to anyone, eh, but they have been very important, very important to cope out with the, and I had the, the bad idea of this year, deciding that my purpose for the year was wisdom. And I say this because. You know, I have, uh, you know, this psychology friend, you know, that I went to speak to her, you know, after all the crisis I was living. This is, this is your fault. He says, you know, this is your fault. Watch out with what you desire. Because to get to wisdom, you have to go, you have to walk through pain. And it's been a rough ride, believe me. But I think I'm, if not wise, at least I'm trying to understand how. Can you become voice, uh, to, to accept? The reality is not what determines you, it's your attitude towards reality. What determines you? so the song can be rough, but the way you, uh, confront the storm, be it personal, social, political labor, uh, is what determines you and. I'm, I'm, I'm a little bit esoteric, but you know, I, I believe in their energy. You know, I, I recognize that people are vitamin people for me, so I try to be surrounded by vitamin people. Eh, I try to avoid as, as it is possible, some toxic people that, you know, kind of as vampires. They get all my energy. I think, you know what I mean? So I don't know. So, so there are basic stuff probably, you know, and of course I, I think last year or some of these years, one of the guest here was Richard Rohr, which I read every day, his reflections. And I remember reading here in campus, falling upwards, the spirituality for the second half of your life, which is a wonderful book. that really helped me as well, you know, my second half of the life, trying to avoid egocentric behavior. Try to try to stick to self enhancement behaviors. So either you learned a lot from your big brother Steve, or your big brother Steve learned a lot from you because in the class that our fellows have taken are the ones that are prospects, uh, would take coming here. Two of the concepts you brought up are things that are kind of rock solid foundations of that class. Gratitude and gratitude journals, and what I, I would call your walk up, every Wednesday. Right. An opportunity to take in nature and to do that. Two things which I had the great pleasure of learning from our mutual great friend. So, um, one thing that I thought would be worth it to explore, is I was once an investment banker and a lot of people, used to think, um, that I completely lacked integrity and purpose because, um, uh, but, uh, um, I've heard that from me as well. Exactly. Um. But what I found is that in the profession there were actually a lot of great people that had integrity and that had purpose, and that the public perception of that role wasn't the same. Talk a little bit about people you've encountered in the world of politics and, and are those, you know, you know, is that perception a correct perception or what's your view on your fellow politicians? I think, I mean, you have everything, uh, and every type of people in every aspect of life, politics is not the, the exception, eh? Uh, so you, you find noble people that wanna do good and are honest people that are trying to serve others, and you find selfish people that are driven by their egos and their, you know, uh, need or, aspiration of power. Um, so the thing is US inward, for example, bankers probably, in the case of politics, the difficulty is not to find good people, it's to make others. Peoples outta politics believe that there are those honest people in politics. uh, one of the most, I would say, painful things is that I, you know, throughout my life. I've been considered, you know, a very honest politician. uh, I have nothing. I, I don't have, properties. I don't have, you know, wealth, uh, and I don't complain. And I'm not proud of it. It's just the way it is. And I'm very happy and I sleep very calm every night. Uh, um, and during this crisis, because some people accuse me of things that I haven't done, eh, people started saying, you know, I thought you were different. I thought, you know, you, you were an honest politician, but I was wrong. You're just as the rest and that's painful. Oh, that's painful. and I'm trying to separate, you know, the ego component of that painfulness of that pain and the more in depth, uh, dimension, which is, you know, I wanna, make others, especially young people. Believe that you can be an honest public servant and be involved in politics. I, I think this my, is my, my, my duty, my mission, so when I see that being questioned, uh, it's very hard. It's very hard. And what I see is people that are, uh, concerned about their reputation, uh, concern about their, you know, character are, less and less willing to get involved in politics because of this. Of course I met, you know, wonderful people in all political parties, and this is not important thing. You find evil people and you find wonderful people in all political lines and parties. and, and, and you need to be able to, bundle with them to make community with them, cross lines to show that, you know, we can fight our ideas. We can be passionate about what we live in, but at the end of the day, we can respect each other. We can, you know, put the common good before the private or the partisan game. but it's hard. And it's harder every day. It's harder every day, but it's, it's a need. I mean, what is, social life, community life without, you know, honest, uh, politics, uh. Political council, you know, the being concerned about the police, the city, that's where the, democracy came from. Uh, and we need to have people that are able to believe and to practice these values. It's, it's not as much as something that we preach, because at the speech level, you know, everything says the same. It's at the practical level that we need to have people with these values. And, I would say behavior. So in addition to that, while Emily brings the questions up that have come from the audience, um, uh, just maybe any other advice you, you know, for those people who think, you know, maybe politics isn't right for them, you know, in your, career as a public servant, have you seen roles that people have played that have been you think beneficial and powerful and effective? and, you that have helped move forward the missions that you believe in? Oh, absolutely. And in, in different moments and places in the world. The funny thing is when I think about these leaders, it's interesting. Sometimes leaders can be authorities, but not always. I remember when I, I studied with ma, my master degree in Harvard one, my professors, and I think Steve New as well, which, uh, which, um, um, Steven, no, uh, Hy and he has this wonderful book called. Leadership without easy answers. And one of the most in intriguing things for me is how can you lead without being an authority? That's one. Second, what are the risk of being an authority in order to lead? Uh, because, well, sometimes people will ask from you certainty, uh, to quiet down the discrepancies in society. The leader has to allow some discrepancy and to co conduct in a way those differences in society instead of trying to, uh, applicate or, uh, eliminate some of them. Eh, uh, so I mentioned this because I, you know, for me, I've had, you know, uh, religious leaders that have been very important. Uh, in Chile. One of the most important figures, uh, was. One Saint Albert Todo, which founded the Christ, uh, shelter. And it's, you know, the most important thing. But he not only did you know charity, she also talk about, you know, the importance of labor law. So the labor unions. So it was a very comprehensive leader. Uh, during the dictatorship, the cardinal of Santiago, uh, founded the victory of solidarity. So the light for the defense, uh, of human rights in Chile was the church. When political parties were vanished. Uh, but not to mention, you know, fears like, you know, Martin Luther King from here who wasn't a politician, but also politicians, you know, Contra Inman in, in Germany. And I don't know, I can mention many, many people that have been inspirations to many of us, both from positions of authority or power, or none. But there have been a positive influence in my my life. Y you are remarkable because the first question actually flows into this really nicely. Um, you're remarkable for a lot of reasons. But, um, the first question is, writers have a strong history of political activism and Chilean throughout Latin America. Who is your favorite Chilean writer? Prose and poetry. And how has that writer's, uh, work influenced you both personally and professionally? Wow, poet. Poet. A poet, right? A poet or a writer? Either a poet or writer, a Chilean one. Oh, wow. Interesting. No, I, I would say Paolo, which is, uh, you know, is a Nobel Prize, of literature, and is interesting because, uh, you know, his political visions are very different from mine. Uh, but he had a, a capacity to. Worship with words, you know, basic things, you know, he will, he'll do this, uh, poetry for air, for the sea. So in a way, you know, for those of you who have, uh, read or heard about mindfulness or, you know, teaching at hand, uh, this idea of that you can reconnect with life through simple things. And I think this poet in a way, and also he had poetry for justice and for democracy and for this important but interesting. He, he will worship and he will, uh, uh, how say, make visible the beauty of simple things. And I think that's something important in life. That's beautiful. So, you mentioned the, pinoche years, the pinoche. Do they continue to resonate in Chilean contemporary culture, or are they, are those years and the impact of those years getting lost, uh, over time? Ah, different question. You know what? I think, uh, they still resonate, in a good and bad way, in a good way that, uh, you know, the majority of Chileans, even those who probably. We're in favor of the military coup at that moment, looking backwards, say, you know, we don't wanna lose our democracy ever again. regardless of what happens, democracy is the end and the means to construct a common good. And, uh, the bad thing is, I hear you know, that, uh, we kind of, um, give lip service. Of democracy and, and human rights. I have friends from the left in Chile that will talk about Pinoche as something very bad, of course, and very, he was a dictator. I, I fought against him, but they will not be able to condemn with the same strength other dictatorships from the left. It tells me that, the lesson has not been learned, as hard as you want. And also people from the right. You know, people will say, you know, we condemn left wing autocracy, so dictatorships in Latin America, like Cuba or Nicaragua or Venezuela right now, but we don't condemn Pinoche. so that double discourse, that double standard kind of, you know, troubles me. And I think we need, uh, to have a common ground that is more consistent. either we are for democracy always and everywhere, and for human rights for my people and your people. Or at the end of. For, not for all because people, people learn that. But I think, some people use Pinoche in one way or the other to just throw it in the face of their opponents, but they're not willing to take the lesson, you know, until it hurts. So, um, uh, I think we just have a few minutes left, so I'm gonna kind of merge the last couple questions. Um, and that is, uh, just the context of, any advice for people in the us um, that, uh, are concerned about, uh, um, the erosion of D democracy and also maybe weaving in with that, has the kind of current. uh, administration's, um, approaching to politics had any effects in chilling. Direct effects. Are you feeling it? You want me to lose my visa, right? Just joking. let, lemme just, uh, I don't wanna avoid the question, but I, I, I think it's, uh, it's always been bad for Latin America that the US doesn't take into account what happens their backyard, uh, we're America, the, the whole way from Chile to, to Canada and what happens here, it'll affect you sooner than later. Immigration is just one. So unless we have strong democracies and strong democracies come with fight against corruption, fight against organized crime and economic growth, those are the three pillars of a strong democracy. And unless we're able to invest in that, that's not only, you know, attacking, you know, boats, uh, that are getting into the us, it's also investing in that more, this idea that, we need. A world in general and a Latin America in particular, that is more equal. I mean, you could say, of course, eh, it's not our problem. You know, we have enough problems within our country, which is true. But take it, I, I'll ask you, I will push you to, to think that this is all your problem, because some of the effects of this will find you sooner than later. I remember just a small, an anecdote. When I was mayor of one of the Santiago boroughs, it's a very poor one, but we have a very fancy university like Notre Dame there. So, and I had one of the deans that is one, was one of my boards, uh, SI mean, advisory boards. Uh, and I would, I, I was obsessed by dropouts since high school. You know how kids were getting out and they were getting into crime, and I tell them examples, one of. the claw. Uh, but it was the nickname for this guy, this kid that will, you know, commit a lot of crime. And so I, I will, you know, always talk about Elra Elgar Elra is doing that. And we have to stop this. We have to prevent this. One day I get a phone call from this dean of the economic department of the University of Union said, you know, I met Elgar. I said, where did you meet him? In my house. They robbed me and my family. They handcuff us and they do everything. And I remember when they were going out, one of them called him the other, Hey Garra, hurry up. So I mentioned this because I mean this guy a very, you know, important and rich university living a different part of the city. But at the end of the day, inequalities hunt. And that's, that's something I would say. And the other thing is we have to protect democracy. But as Steve Leki, I remember hearing Steve Leki here, uh, with how democracies die. You know the, I think page number five of that book, he says, democracies do not die as the Chilean one did with planes bombarding the National Palace. That was how it used to be with military, cos now it's more subtle, now it's more in silence. you stop the free speech and, and the press, and then you, uh, go for the other powers of, uh, try to cope out the powers and then you alienate people, uh, that's, uh, speak or think different from you. So I mentioned this because this is something not for the us, for any country. There's a, a Latin American author, it's called, no. Uh, he has the, this wonderful book called, it's in English, the Revenge of Power. I said, how autocrats are shaping politics in the 21st century. And he thought he speaks about the three Ps. He sets, populism, eh, polarization. He says post through, truth, sorry. Like fake news or post through, uh, truth. Sorry. So his idea is, you know, the new type of autocracy in the world, uh, it can be hungry, it can be Turkey, it can be, I don't know, Salvador, it can be any country, anywhere. It's about the combination of these three. How do we, we put up. These, two sides that are, uh, not ible. They're recordable, you know, the good guys and the bad, the lead against the people, the Patriots against the anti Patriots. And then we, everything. And then we use the fake and truth about it. And I think we ought to be very careful and we have to analyze this. it's happening everywhere. we don't have a recipe because there are things, I would say, you know, the fear against crime is there is real, the fear against immigration is there's real, the fear, uh, that people will overcome my values is there is real. So the thing is, how do we manage those real fears in our societies? The only tool we have to manage peacefully our differences, which is democracy. Uh, I remember one Chilean politicians that said, you know, we only know when autocracies start. We never know when they end. Uh, so we had to be consistent, regardless whether we like it. Like uhs, you know, that was tied up. so it won't hear the, the chance of the sirens, eh, we have to tie up ourselves up with those basic values of respect, rule of law, democracy, human rights for everyone, because you don't know when you will be. In a position when you will have to, uh, call up those values to the, to offend your ideas or those you like or love. So Claudia, we, we call this series, uh, ThinkND Inspiring Conversations, leadership and Public Purpose. Um, we name the series and then we bring in the guests and hope that they actually do that. but you have, uh, gone above and beyond. uh, this has been spectacular, so I wanna gratitude and you'll be kind enough. to join those that are in the, group here, that are part of the ally this evening, so people have opportunity connect with you. Well, happy to see. Lemme, lemme just say one thing. I, I, I, um, I, I, I, I stopped believing in, casual events, uh, long time ago. I believe, strongly believe in synchronous, synchronicities. Uh, and so when I was coming here. I had a very rough week also this year. I was coming yesterday, but I had to postpone today. I was, didn't make it and so I was thinking, and I was praying and saying, you know, why is that I have to come to Notre Dame in the midst of my personal crisis? And you know, I just realized you made me walk through not only my life. But also all those values that brought me where I am right now. So in the midst of the storm, as I say to you, I say to me, I have to tie myself up to those values to wait for the sun to come up, keep on going with serving the people. So thank you.