Revolutions of Hope, Part 3: Freedom's LIberator

Episode Topic: Freedom's Liberator

The roots of modern Ukraine are the rhythms and rhymes of Taras Shevchenko (1814-1861). His innovative poetry has long been Ukraine’s source code, a cultural algorithm in pursuit of personal, national, and universal human freedom. Today it helps fuel widespread grassroots resistance against a Russian war of aggression and conquest that threatens all of Europe.

Featured Speakers:

• Rory Finnin, University of Cambridge
• Clemens Sedmak, University of Notre Dame

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/fd386b.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Revolutions of Hope.

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Transcript

Introduction and Opening Remarks

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My name, service Director

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of York as a school of global is interested in all globally because of Jim Ukraine is a truly global, it's not a small country. We're about

2 0:31

Ukraine, professor Finn,

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and of the major conference of Ukraine. Revolutions of instinct. This hosting this week, the president world. I would like to take the opportunity to write them.

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An director of Ukraine University since is a very important person'll introduced,

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very important person. So this is the 70 minutes. Bring the in, who then used for we, this lecture after there some time, but questions we end at once four. Middle. The latest Professor Mary joined the school as it second dean in summer 2024. She has had some connection with our school since she served as an external reviewer of one of our Germans and the Law Institute for Asia and Asia Studies. It's not too hard to conclude on this spec because again, that is an expert on Asia, especially China President from the University of Michigan. Since Notre Dame surprised Award scholar, such as the Washing Post and the New York Times, she's the author, editor of Five Books, contemporary China with Cambridge Bank, many other international organization, PhD Politic for Princeton University for East Asia. Studies college experience includes teaching at the College of Beijing and in to several universities for the at shit. We are my expert too. the Mary Dean for being with us today. We very much appreciate your leadership and support the of Next and welcome.

2 3:15

Very nice.

3 3:20

I'm honored to introduce a distinguished friend of Dame Rory Finn profess of studies, the at the University of Cambridge and founder of the Ukrainian Study, Troy. This is his second visit him last October. He received the Laura Shannon Prize and Contemporary European study expert supported book. A lot of others, Staman Ian Atrocity and the Poetics and Solidarity. That's Marc, the total of eight international awards and we're pleased to have him back this weekend. Uh, and this week for our, conference, revolutions of Hope that as sent back to Merchant since long the coverage Ukrainian studies program in 2008, R has curated and organized over 48 of cultural events, all of which have advanced public understanding of Ukraine's language history and society in United Kingdom and beyond. He's the former head of the Department of S studies and chair of the Cambridge Committee for Russian and Eastern European Studies. We don't take right to the fact that he is in na, it's not good. And I, that's what I'm talking about. We're talking about football. PhD in languages and comparative literature from Columbia University and certificates from the Institute and from the Institute for the Study of Human Rights at Columbia University. Research focuses on the inter between culture and identity in Ukraine's particular attention, crime and Parker Literature. The Crowder interest in the naturalism studies, a studies and cultural memory in the region of the black. We're pleased to welcome our Finn Liberator in the making of modern Ukraine. Finn will introduce us Tokos poetry, which has inspired the of freedom and resistance to political oppression. One could bring his work in the context of the long Ukrainian anti-colonial struggle, especially against. Please join in giving a warm

Historical Context and Modern Relevance

Shevchenko's Artistic and Literary Contributions

A Darker Vision: The Blind Minstrel

The Universal Message of Liberation

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welcome Finn. Forgot about that. Mary. Thank you, Mitz. Thank you for this. Wonderful. I, I'm still gonna be thinking the mic is here. Um, thank you. Welcome the hospitality. Wonderful to be back here, Notre Dame. it is a really important time for us to be talking, uh, about Ukraine, about Ukrainian literature and culture. I wanna in particular, welcome all of our dear friends, colleagues, loved ones from Ukraine National. Uh, we're really facing, uh, a good little moment in our history. In Ukraine's Ukraine history, it's a fraught one full of danger. So it's important that we have this opportunity here this week, uh, to talk more about Ukraine, to dive more deeply into the politics culture. Tomorrow we open the Revolution of Hope conference at a time when I think the states of our knowledge about Ukraine are very high, when the implications, of us not only learning about Ukraine, but learning from Ukraine, have great implications for our own security. As you all know, Ukraine is the largest country by territory within the European con continent. And as a state, it emerged over centuries in the peripheries of three different empires. Not one empire, not two, but three different empires. It's very diverse, highly dynamic, and as a cultural and historical object of knowledge, it is. Fascinating and endlessly complex today, I wanna say hack complexity and explore with you Ukraine, source code, the born in 1814, and someone who died early days before the emancipation. Dark in the Russian, in being that himself was a, we'll discuss, that death and the timing of that is so, only that a few things. I think our colleagues and loved ones from Ukraine will have a lot to q&a, which, my Ukrainian colleagues can correct me fill certain. When I've discovered over the course of my career is just how deeply the roots of modern Ukraine are, orange and, located in the rhythms and rhymes of chenko. And to do the many justice requires 40 weeks, not 40 minutes, um, minutes, and I'll stick to those 40 minutes, but even 40 minutes. I hope to leave you today with a deeper understanding of shanker's monumental achievement, without which I think modern political ukraines would distinctly not be possible because his art advances not a national genealogy, not some kind of national history. These are the kinds of things we normally expect from our national poets after all. But his art advances something else. His art advances in ethos idea, an ethical disposition to others urges, odds of attachment that are, remarkably. Wit freedom for their people. In this sense, Ukraine, not different, but Chip Chenko, a former surf with really of oppression boundaries. he privileged universal democratic freedom himself. He did not constrain or restrict a project of freedom to Ukraine and Ukraine's borders alone. This ethos, which I think is invested in almost every tenant of the concept of integrity, human development is, something that none, nothing less than the, map of Europe for generation. So what I'd like to do today is situate this work in both national context and international ones, and I'd like to talk to you today first about his capacity for forgiveness, this work of mercy and. Which ends up making Ukraine possible, Ukrainian civil society, possible. Ukrainian civil society is the most dynamic and invented from Europe and has been for a very long time. KO's messages example. And then I'd like to focus on his solidarity with the solidarity with oppressed, marginalized peoples. Not all Ukraine, but all around the world, uh, particularly in Central Asia. And this solidarity combats various hierarchies of empire and pursues in rather dogged fashion, both universal charity of social justice. So to begin, what I'd like to do is widen the ature for a moment and situate ourselves in what might be for this conversation anyway, an unexpected place in time. I wanna begin in June, 2022 in Sochi, in today's Russian Federation on the close, on the coast of the Black Sea. Four months after Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine, or at least the beginning of this horrific full scale invasion, the chair of the African Union and President of Senegal and in accounts of Visitin was reported. He was spoken with Saul repeatedly about quote unquote fighting colonialism, by which he meant presumably Western colonialism. He certainly wasn't addressing Russian colonialism, which is highly extractive and exploitative now in the African continent. And Putin also made a point of noting that SOI had been a venue, a site, other conversations between African and Russian leaders from over the years. Sochi just kept being repeated. Sochi, Sochi, Sochi was as if Putin was daring us to call out the hypocrisy because Sochi was once f the capital ofia a country that the Russian empire wiped off the peace in the earth over the course of 100 years, the so-called Sto Cian war. Uh, we'll talk more about that in a moment. The demographic, cultural, and political implications of this war were graves murdered and expelled billions of C people displaced them to other parts of the Black Sea region, particularly Ottoman Turkey. And again, this was a more waged by Russian enforcements for over 100 years. In other words, Klin had ethnically class. Colonized. The very plates that Ma Saul completely nowhere was sitting and talking about colonialism. Russia's war against the CS was very well known and chronicled in detail In the United States in the 19th century, you do an easy search on the New York Times. As you see how you can see how journalists, discuss the of the Russian military, their occasional defeats. And often these journalists made very unwise, hasty predictions of when the war warworth include. I want quote from one of articles. Russia is about to make a great effort, put an end at once and forever to the warfare Inia, which has now been ing without any appreciable result for 50 years and consumes annually a third of the Imperial Army. So this is. 1857, the war would go on, for another seven years. You'll also see a note about the Cian people themselves, the Cs have received for a long while, a great deal of sympathy, the hands of the civilized world, and then you'll see the conjunction. But, and this unfortunately should sound strangely familiar today, I think sadly tragically Russia's, I'm the last member, this girdle century long war, even though it claims millions of lives and the Kremlin banks on this sea, Russian, and roost centric histories treat the war with the wave the hand. So argue that it never happened. Others argue that this act complex gets really an annexation that was welcomed by the tribes with bread and salt. You saw the true measure of ignorance when the world gathered. 14 for the Winter Olympics. This photograph for anybody who to Sochi is served. It's a subtropical based on the Black sea. The mountains appear like that near any water, of course. but for us, it didn't really matter. We barely bat an eyelid the world forgot and let itself forget, except in Ukraine. And that has everything to do with chenko'cause. Anytime Ukrainians rise up in defense of freedom or the rule of law, anytime that they are combating against ing authoritarianism, autocracy, they implicitly articulate, they speak forth a memory of this war of aggression waged by Russia against Circadia and the other peoples of the caucuses. Not only that, they use words that are meant as inspiration and comfort for the very people who are fighting against. Words are, you'll prevail. God is helping during the revolution. The revolution on the surface of the text. This couplet comes from KO's, anti-colonial pastor, worker five, all of the Es. It's addressed to the Cian mountaineers who are de defending themselves against person aggression, fighting back against Russian. Read the live. This is a message once again, Cian words, the Chechen, the English, who are fighting against Russian aggression. The magic of Chen's poetry is how they resonate for Ukrainians as a message of course deeply, which very clearly intended for them to and nevermore than today. So this is an emblematic stroke, I would say, of a man who is the spark in flame of Ukrainian culture, whose image and appearance as a young man, as a NIST portrait of 1840, or as an older man pistachio the stern. These are images found all across Ukraine and around the world. You can see here in this image a monument Toko from the town of Boca, which is northwest of the city of. Boka experienced horrific occupation in the first weeks of Russia's full scale invasion. As you can see here, according to locals, the Russian troops made sure to shoot shook Chenko in the head. So you can see this bullet hole. And there's a very devastating and poignant story of a 9-year-old boy who couldn't speak of the horrors of occupation, but could speak, uh, his feelings of confusion and anger for this attack on Chico's statue. He couldn't explain. It's of course, hard to understand Russian forces shot at his monument because they couldn't chen's words. So who was chenko? My, my favorite characterization of the poet is, uh, by way of the Ukrainian writer Andre Corco, who calls him the Dalai Lama of Ukraine. A man born, stabbed in the middle of Ukraine in 1814. He deserves his own Hollywood blockbuster. And I've been calling for, for quite some time, a surf, literally the property of another human being, A surf who born, in century Ukraine and then became a painter, a painter who became a poet and a poet who endured textile become the voice of a people, often begrudgingly. So, and it's really difficult to oversee the significance of chenko for ukranians across the country across the centuries, indeed, across the globe. a few years ago in 2018, I worked with colleagues at the London School Economics about, on a project really about political polarization in Ukraine. Uh, we, a lot of different kinds of surveys, focus groups, taking Ukrainians, generations, different parts of the country and consistently, Chenko was. Beloved, most respected and most revered, no matter if you were a Russian speaking, Mario or Ukrainian speaking, person from whether you spoke Yiddish Chenko Top. So this admiration can actually be seen across time and space. One of the ways you can see it across time is, by exploring the Ngram viewer. And if you're an undergraduate and not use the Ngram viewer, which effectively searches Google's digitized corporates, in the English by in particular, you can trace for instance certain terms and their usage and frequency over time. And you can see here the Chenko effect, as I always call it, meaning in which the term UK Ukraine and Ukrainian, is, uh, is dynamically precipitously higher after, Chenko. were, and, and career. I wanna focus on a few other images here. One from the region of sun in eastern Ukraine. Very close to the border with Russia. And here you see an image of people gathering to celebrate the emergence of the Ukrainian publish in 1917. If you look very closely in the center there, IKOS, which is great in the middle, and also you'll see above the portrait, a flag that reads Ukraine flag that says Land and freedom. And we're gonna talk a bit about this concept of VO in a moment, but that it's a term that Lin used across the Russian endocrine, but as radically different vo, in fact, is included. Dictionary of sots terms. It has a very long entry in fact. But I think the term untreatable doesn't quite fit because in fact it's really too translatable. That is, it means variety of different things. It can mean freedom in this conventional sense. It can mean will and it can mean volition. In the Ukrainian case, these concepts are intertwined. So VO in the Ukrainian compact is defiant freedom. It's the freedom you have to exercise your will, to claims to against external forces that are always seeking to take it from you. So this is 1917 within the bounds of Ukraine, consuming, let's go 5,000 kilometers eastward around the same time to the city of Habas. And here you see again, demonstration of Ukrainians also marking. Peoples public, which was very progressive center, left, securing, territory against invasion. Another thing is rather difficult to see, to trust me that the orchard, the center of the photograph is indeed. But even here you can see Ukrainians taking into the streets to, uh, speak for the idea of Ukrainian sovereignty, not only in mainland Ukraine, but also in fact in this very space. Um, this space, Russian party was called the Zel, or the Green Crescent Green. It was a space settled by many Ukrainians, sometimes forced there by the Czar in the late 19th century. It was a very difficult place for Ukrainians to be Ukrainians because in 1863, uh, the Ukrainian language was secretly forbidden. Publications were, Secret, uh, forbidden and prohibited by, Russian imperial sensors. And then in 18 six, BAAR made it official Theon Oh, in which all Ukrainian language works, were prohibited. So in the Far East, it was difficult for Ukrainian migrants who were brought there to the land. It was difficult for them to maintain their culture, their traditions, but they did. And they did so against, great odds. And in 1917, amid the Tums of the, of the Russian Empire, these Ukrainians organized familiar theme, Ukrainian history. Uh, the organization of Ukrainians at grassroots level is constantly in the west, not often paid close enough attention to it. They organized at this time in the Far East in 1917. They even weren't so far as to organize what they called a secretariat of the Ukrainian Our East. It tried to mobilize me. They appointed a premier, that premier had diplomatic relations with Chinese and Japanese diplomat. The idea was to create a Ukrainian polity on the shores of the, of Japan. And that may sound like, the punchline to a Soviet era choke, but it's not. And very, very important for us to embark on a closer study of projects like this because it tells us a great deal about the vibrancy, these spending, political and cultural project one that we've been ignoring, I think collectively far too long. So what can we attribute this lasting resonance, this, massive outside significance, this legacy of a man who was born a slave who never achieved political power, never owned an estate, ever sat on a throne, never sat idly by while others were exploited of all. Secure his status were his poet gifts with the Ukrainian language. We can't tell, it's too deeply into it here, but take it from me that Chen's corpus is lively live. It's innovative, it sticks in your head. It's adventurous and artistically way ahead of its time. And I often tell students and study students actually, that if you're looking to find a kind of Ukrainian, where Ukrainian Kush, you'll be your neck, every leader, because he's not a, conventional romantic. And if anything, he is very much a promo poet, well ahead of his time. He takes a lot of chances. He defies so many of our expectations. So I wanna talk a little bit about his language and take this example from 1847, I think it tells us absolutely everything. In 1847, Chenko had been arrested. For each participation in a group called the Brotherhood of Saint Cyril and Methodius, he was the most rowdy of the members of the two brotherhood. There were others who were more spa academic, but was the one who had lit the room fire when he was arrested. So many of those very songs were on his person. And the so-called third section Security Services of the Russian Empire, uh, discovered these, various poems. Uh, you can see them, in archives, with these officers of the third section, underscoring various terms that were radioactive that called the Czar, for instance, a, a, a serpent, lots of, curse words and, and, um, disparaging terms about the czar. So he's facing what he knows is a very long exile and instead of indulging his fear. Inviting. What he does inside his prison is conjure for himself this wonderful of a family retiring from a long day's work around dinner table, how Chenko takes the rhyme that's normally at the end of a line and injects it everywhere. He embraces as internal rhyme. You have so many different soic curly cues in this poem. It is a force of inspiration for himself as an individual, as a holistic person. He's trying to hold it together in the face of cist punishment. And indeed that punishment comes, he's exiled, for more than 10 years, and he's actually forbidden personally by the czar for writing, painting, drawing. But of course, he defies the order anyway, but it was a very draconian punishment. So given this village, seeing undergraduates might not think that this kind of verse actually gets included in hop tune, but you'd be wrong because it does. And here it is embedded in a song by the pop star, Alina Posh, who uses it in a worse real night in her country into Chenko that you just saw on the previous verse. Into figures who can prestige a better future? Lets take a, well, the best performances and citations of sh poetry are coming from, women artists. Musicians will see one more example in a moment. So Chen's cool factor is found, but there's also something of the fear factor, uh, as well, especially when I speak to Ukrainian Americans here. might have been forced to chen's poetry, uh, in Saturday schools. I don't know if there's some, some here. yeah. Okay. So I remember, terrifying. I know this is the case often with some of my own students in Ukraine who were taught to learn this poet because he was the granite figure they often saw in city squares, in various town. But really what we need to do is understand how diverse and poly five his poetry is. He once said that, we make out quarrel with others' rhetoric and outta a quarrel with ourselves. Poetry. Chiko is constantly quarrel with himself based with contradiction. He embraces it faced with opposition. He lets it linger. His lyrical persona is very hybrid, very multiple. So sky, he's difficult to pin down. He can speak with the voice of the Ks. Ks are being an instrument. Band, national instrument of Instrument. He can employ the voice of a bombastic prophet. He can employ the voice, the voice of a downtrodden victim. He can even vent chauvinist colonized, which he does very on many occasions. Ezra Pound said that we should write poems like orchestral scores with many voices at once. Soko is very much this kind of poet, this kind of composer, which is why he reaches so many Ukrainians and so many different voices across the country. And here you can see a illustrator having some fun with this idea of the many different masks and persona that Chenko can adopt depending on his uh, audience. But he embodies diversity, and then in his poetry, he makes sense of it holistically. The content of his poetry, however, is overcome with difficult knowledge. Knowledge secrets buried in graves of abandoned women and illegitimate children of brothers, fleeing brothers. And of that nonetheless, still somehow bears the promise for the future. And not only in his poetry. As I mentioned, Chenko was a very talented artist. In fact, it's through his art that his freedom is one. These are two images that show us a great deal of change in transition in his, artistic worldview between this whole year, 1842 to 1843. What we see on the left in Catarina is a meditation on what he calls the ika or covered woman. Woman who has been seduced and then abandoned by mu white soldiers and then alienated by her own Trinity. In this romantic canvas of Catina in 1842, you can see the use of life here, which is really striking and very much in keeping with the work of his mentor and teacher. Here. The figure of catina is, she's virtually angelic, but you can see, in the left side of the canvas, the musk white soldier abandoning her. And then the foreground towards the right, you can see something of this judgment of, uh, the local community around her, who do not accept her after, the abandonment and do not accept her act one year later, as you can see her an eighth. Next three, A vision grows darker. This work in Ceia called slick pay or a blind man features a, a blind minstrel. This is a, a very common figure in ghost's poetry. One he adopts as an image of himself. He self fashion as this type figure that is some sort of bombastic. But rather as a modest and in humble and indeed destitute, you can see how in this, the blind man is accompanied by a crippled boy to his left. And then behind him, quite literally marginalized in work is a young woman hidden behind and concealed behind this fence. And the fence extends right to the statue of the canvas, almost inviting us to wanna tear it down. The reason for this transition between 1842 and 1843 is that mechanical. In 1843 return to Ukraine, after almost a decade of being away in the Imperial Center, he was owned by a man named Pablo Engelhart and only, in the 1840s, free to return to his homeland. this is just show you. The semi collection of Chen poetry in 1840, and then on the left zone drawings once again of this kza mins with, uh, boy to his side. In this work, you once again get assessed of this visual. so it's a rather doer portrayal of the remnants and debris of East. I'll be very prominent historical figure, head of the 17th century, dark. But yet at the same time, CHCO always offers us this plan of light in the foreground and even, a foreground that is, showcasing this resilient, robust, flower and plant indicating that renewal and regeneration are always possible. We see this, uh, visual hall here. I'd like to talk to you about today is first forgiveness and then solidarity with the Yeah. Colin's like my friend of the epistle of 1845, Chenko seizes upon this poly, this play of many voices who are really never introduced. So that makes Chenko difficult to read, doesn't, doesn't explain who necessarily is speaking in his poems, what change the transition of, almost read him aloud, understand the entry and exit of different voices. But what he does here in this poem is model of forgiveness for ones, toward one's neighbor. The full title of my epistle is quite a mouthful. Uh, the irony of this title is that this is not a friendly letter at all, where that absolutely. Ukrainian elites or their installing crimes against their neighbors, particularly Ukrainian surfs and Ukrainian cousins. How fierce is this rhetoric? Well, first of all, he shouts this is, um, materially wealthy and yet fail to see their dun to their own people and to the, uh, neighbors and the peasants around them. these are people who, sleep on heirs, forget their own cult, abandon their own sense of local authenticity and speak the language of the oc. Um, begin to perform according to the traits and attributes of the Imperial Center. And here you can see. This view, nice own people. Certainly not nice way to speak to your readers. Once again, redeem yourself. Engage in an act of redemption. Acknowledge aing towards your neighbor. Otherwise, evil will follow you. This constant address of a you, the spoken you in the poem is not so we can lighten Interpolation. Interpolation is a concept introduced by Louis Al in his critique of capitalist ideology, just in Times Square, two days ago. And, alt Sarah would say I was constantly being interpolated by the various advertisements around me. this is a healing that takes place in which I, as the addressee or possible addressee turnaround in a kind of hit me moment, suddenly accept that I could be the intended addressee of an ideology in this sense, of a national membership. So the fact that Chiko is calling out to you is already a way of, of amplifying that the reader is in some way Ukrainian, not because of the language they speak or the religion they profess, but because they're reading him and, listening to his word. So over the course of poem, letter 55 Lines, Pacheco Exercises Mercy because he ends up enveloping these addresses that he's been shouting at the entire poem, and instead accepts them into me family. I Right brother, the embrace them. My brothers, I beg you, I besch. So in the same way that the poem begins with yourselves, it concludes with, embrace come together. And so in many respects, we can see a certain kind of activity taking place in the poem and we can liken it to, a poem drafted as it were, by way of a compass. The center of the compass is the eye of search persona on the periphery out there doing all these terrible things. Is that spoken? You? I'm getting all those install. And then there's the unspoken you of the reader, right in the middle. You're a Ukrainian reader in 1845. Probably don't identify with the person being insulted. and increasingly you gravitate about miracle persona's eye. You feel the attraction of this moral center. What ends up happening over the course of the poem is that the eye, the spoken you and the unspoken, you, the reader, hung together. in this coalescent towards the end of the poem, this is very much, the practice of mercy in action forgiveness that brings the national community together in a holistic way. Simplest message of doing unto the least of my brother is not national. As I said earlier, it's universal. It's global. While he was in exile where he once again was forbidden to write, paint, or draw, he composed a series of works. Which call attention to the poverty and the suffering of particularly children in central di So in Kazak Boy on the right, uh, our experience of what should be a lighthearted moment of a young boy playing with the cat is shaken by the sight of his distended belly. And the fact that the darkness in the full round obscures face, you'll notice how poet places himself behind boy. So that's in the background. He's quite literally on their side. He's looking out at us with unexpected ga, what are we going to do about conditions these children find themselves. Similarly, the, the beggars also from his period in Kazakhstan, two young boys at the door asking for food. Once again, Chenko was with them looking at us, us to. Brings to Ka. We began with this poem. I wanna conclude it here. This is a remarkable poem that it's difficult to read because the voices are constantly shifting, but they begin with the presentation, Prometheus being tortured by an eagle. Now normally myth goes, a Prometheus is being tortured by a bird of Craig, even a vulture. But it's an eagle for a reason, because of course the double-headed eagle was a symbol of the Russian empire. Prometheus is being tortured every day, as we know. he restores himself overnight and then goes through the torture once more. For Chenko, the struggle of the circadian and Caucasian, English mountaineers against Berkshire conquest is very much like. They may see in and day out, but they must remember that will begin their energies in the, the energy that sustains Prometheus is the energy of God. The energy cannot bind the living spirit or the living word. For those of you who have read before, heard it recited, there's often a grail grave male voice in your ear. That was often the way that the home was in, at least in my experience. And performers like Kanye Lu actually restore subs, uh, them to this almost jazzy, bluesy, cadence and really lets his, uh, as. So, we have a really deft Leigh of hand in Chen's poetry. His expression of this only freedom, the defiant freedom that is, that powers moments of anti-colonial resistance. This is internally, processed as deeply spiritually foundational by the people of Ukraine. So it's a message that is transnational meant for those on the Black Sea fighting off Russian caucus, but meant for those back home. It's a source code of an ethics liberation here that knows no political, religious, or ethnic boundaries, but doesn't face them either. I wanna conclude with the powerful image that I know most Ukrainians or all Ukrainians have seen. It's a moment from the autumn of 2022 when Ukrainian soldiers in the h. Effect released and rescued this concept of, of freedom. You know, because this ethics of liberation in action is almost mythical. The soldiers were liberating the town of Bolea. And in these, hastily occupied Russia forces would often put these billboards that attested to this mess we're one people with Russia. This is a violent rhetoric of a simulation. We're one people with Russia is just another way of saying that Ukrainians grew Russian and they just don't know it yet. They certainly don't mean that Russians are Ukraine. This is a, a dangerous, act of epistemic violence. And these billboards were, performing that role in a, a territory when these towns were liberated, Ukrainian soldiers would pull them down on this occasion. Soldiers pulled down one of these messages of violent assimilation, uh, not knowing what they would find beneath it, and they were amazed and staggered by what they beneath this Russian propaganda billboard was KO's message of comfort and solidarity that we read earlier. Message that people resisting colonial digression have defiant freedom on their side. Holy, sacred vo, this is a moment of liberation in which this concept of freedom of itself, itself is indeed excavated rescue and a freedom. It's a moment in which poetry is liberated literally, and in being liberated immediately speaks and advances this cause of further liberation. Again, this is liberation that's not simply national, but universal. But this moment makes clear that, of course, the resistance of Ukrainian people is more than their own righteous self defense against colonialist conquest and aggression, as we've seen their fight, involves the liberation of the very idea of freedom stuff. That's why I call chenko freedoms liberator, literally freeze it for us to enjoy. Obviously this is a value that we as Americans purport to ahold their fight. Flight of Ukrainians is our fight and their security is our, security. It's a security that is geopolitical. Certainly more than that, it's existential. So we understand the messages of chenko, we can see the nature of Ukrainian defense. We can understand that Ukrainians will defend themselves, whatever it takes. But I think we can also see why Ukraine can win, provided we do what is necessary to help them. Now today in Ukraine, statues, Toko will protected in sandbags, you can see are in product. They are covered in steel casing. As you see in on the right. Bush's War of Aggression is about silencing Ukraine's culture. It's about destroying its identity. It's about stepping on the throat of KO's song, this song of forgiveness, national consolidation, consolidation, and transnational solidarity. And when we study him at places like Notre Dam. Advance study of Ukraine, not only for the short term, but for generations to come. We not only restore him to view and amplify his voice and the voices of millions of Ukrainians unheard for generations. We also renew and refresh our own voice and empower ourselves just a little bit to pave the way to a more just em and peaceful society. Thank you very much. Thank you. So

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minutes.

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Up. Okay. Thank you

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very much. It was very, and I find the timing, this question unfortunate in that respect. I'd to thank you very much for, especially for comment about the meanings of the word about this, entanglement of those three different, well, not fully different wildes it concepts, concepts for which there are different terms in different languages. And I find it absolutely beautiful. The Ukrainian combines all three of them. Freedom will. And because this is a trio that should not really be separated.

2 52:07

Thank you very much. No, it's not only silk, it's also, by the way, the, I'm sure is anyone wearing the Ukrainian Trident at the moment. the Trident, of course, the, as a particular kind of shape, I don't have it here. Um, but many have, read a lot into the shape of the Trident having the, uh, spelling out Voya in its very shape and form. Rachel. Yeah. Thanks so much for that really moving narrative. I'm probably not the al in the Marine been experiencing a great deal of shame in midst. and I think it's very much tied of these kind mythological paradigms of anti-colonialism that really your scholarship is predicated by. And when we see the current administration, let's say imitating Darth here, perhaps a little more than the rebel forces, I beginning to one reverse. Not just what the scenes about CONT global politics, but if we're not really talking about a lot of our own ghosts. Right. I wonder if you chair as gly possible somebody be, unpack that. Ghost, you mean Ukraine's ghosts or our own? Our, well, I mean, I do find it, you know, even as some of us could so much like love to jump up and cheer for anything you've said, you know, word of such heroes for Ukraine. You get, you know, you know and told, you said about c to be said with the indigenous peoples of North America, right? So like there was just so much, that's what I'm talking about with the ghosts, right? Like, all of us are complicit, you know, and not just this ultimate big bag down in Russia that, you know, we all are kind of very, very upset with that. A moment. Absolute right to obviously, uh, thank you Sean, introduce our harmony history here and our own shame. Obviously when it comes to Native American cultures, indigenous First Nations here in North America, we grew up at least. And I think most Americans, whether they wanna really admit it or not, will recognize t. However, as you know, in Russia, this is not considered obs and frankly, it gets obscured with our help. And this is where an additional layer of shame Ray has to be addressed. Because in the context of Western studies of Russia, we have absolutely looked past, so much of these acts of ethnic cleansing. And right now, my previous night is 50 years from now, students from Cambridge or Notre Dame gonna Mario walking around thinking this is perennial Russian land that support the messages being. On occupied Ukrainians, but on us, we're complicit in going along with that narrative. And I think it's, it's time for us and obviously in our field we great about decolonization. We don't often understand. I think it begins with us, uh, excavating these moments in history. Uh, when I was here in the fall, I talked a lot about Crimean Tel, the Circs. I think our major warning because world knew about them. Britain, for instance, arms to the circadian people for a very long time. This was a war that took place over a hundred years. I certainly didn't learn of it when I was a student. I learned a bit through Chen's poetry. There's something beautiful about that and there's something terribly wrong about that. So I agree with you that we have a lot to explore ourselves. I think sometimes what we need to do is, is just take those first moments to act. Is a great guide. He's not by any means, and I always run the risk of talking about him. I have such admiration. I don't wanna romanticize him either, but he speaks of sleeping in freedom, being worse than slavery. And I think about those words all the time as American, that we have freedom, that we don't take, seriously, that we take it for granted, uh, that we're sleeping in freedom. So, that freedom involves us think taking steps to learn more about the world around us is why it's great. Notre Dame has focused so beautifully and generously, on the study of Ukraine, and I think we set by step, but never choose sight of the ghost behind us all. Thank. Bruce, thank you very much for that very nuanced, approach and the weaving of poetry song, et cetera. Very powerful and really neat to see. This last statement really hits me in a way that I didn't anticipate, and that is this whole aspect of the hidden as in the, the statue on molest, but also the reveal in other ways. And in some ways what we see here from my perspective is really this element of long-term curation, nurturing of heritage, and protecting a heritage. The part that starts on, on one on the left is traveling, uh, through independent boots shop. year and a half ago when I was there filming and going through there, we came to a particular place where, of course, with CIA water taken place with all of the destruction. And there this large parking lot that it was filled with carless that had been destroyed and burn, and they'd all been brought to this particular place, really a means of cleaning out the streets, cars to go back and forth. What was extraordinary is that this rusting pile of thousands of cars had poetry and art and all these elements, not just the flags, but all of these elements. and now you make me wonder thinking about what was there and sort of that as a compilation is no longer there, but it just thinking about that quite sort this reconstruction of memory and of history and at the same challenge, the curation. So I guess more of a comment rather than, it's a great comment because I do, I I've seen those, I don't know if they were exactly the same vehicles. Uh, certainly, tanks in the center gave as well that have the same, excerpts of jurors. Often, there's a great deal of braids now. but there is a, a profound active appropriation, right? you that destruction back and you channel it direction. and you of course we see but would be something very commonly seen on. So that appropriation I think is an act of, and I appreciate you raising.

1 59:47

May ask and off say something about

The Role of Poetry in Ukrainian Identity

2 1:00:05

That's a great question. Ukraine is Ukraine a geopolitically, geostrategic country? It has been for a very long time. Whether we've been acknowledging each one considers the role of Ukraine in the world, not simply now, but at various junctures in the past. none of those things, none of those developments would be possible for it, not for poetry. You know, we as Americans have documents, constitutions, declarations, um, Chen's poetry, and not only has actually powered, uh, a very strong civic national movement that is movement that is, not only about ethnic Ukrainians, but let's say ethnic Christians, crimeans Jews. We'll understand the spirit of KO's message. Understand that they're confronting today, Russian to the west, a Polish aristocracy. See, they wanna carve out something different and the vessel, the media. That allows that car is this is a case where the humanities have really, clear significant role in establishing how empirically the word can actually move the world. And Soze is just one example. Last Christian,

8 1:01:26

thank you Rory. Really appreciate it. This, uh, wonderful Pat, you losing patient. for those of us who grew up in the Ukrainian American community, uh, Chiche has always been somebody we've struggled with. as, as kids we had to learn as poetry. Uh, we didn't quite understand that poetry. It was to many of us growing up with sort of Avo Indian culture, you know, it was kind of defeatist and very, and so, we're also, I think in Ukraine, community in the United States will rediscover chenko and, um, and your calls a great deal. Over the years, we've begun to really appreciate the fact that Chenko was, Victorian's ultimate, the language that he wrote. Angela is now spoken by about 4 million people around the world. When you compare that to Native Americans, which is horribly tragic, you know, the Cheyenne languages own out maybe hundred times. People still speak now, maybe a hundred thousand still speak Lako. The Ukrainians are really proud of the fact that they can maintain their language and that there are more people speaking it now than Norwegian. You know, what other languages come by. but the other piece that for me that really resonated with this idea of non chauvinistic nationalism, that Chenko is universal. It's not just speaking to Ukrainians in isolation and on the other one that all of us had to learn was learned of what is foreign to you, but do not forsake your own. And that balance has been a huge part of Ukrainian. the Ukrainian ethos, which is not meant to be oppressive or offensive to other cultures, and in fact, embracing other cultures while it's still embracing our home. And that's something that's very exciting to see how that's playing out in the modern show. Thank you.

2 1:03:14

This is the mainstream, the national project. Obviously they're not always starts where others take it in different directions. The is this civic, national nacho language group, added to towards others. This is what means ch useful. in the Soviet period, I have shown you a number of, uh, Soviet ATI or educational posters in which image and the words of chep. Chenko was meant to inspire Red Army soldiers of Ukrainian origin on the front. they were punk out and tens of thousands of copies, uh, similar Chenko own poetry was published in small additions that could reach soldiers at the front. and. When the Soviet Union was advancing this very cosmetic idea of a friendship of peoples, uh, sir Chenko, because the attitude was never chauvinistic. It was always exploring, uh, different cultures with a great deal of empathy, sympathy. Obviously, Soviet treatment wouldn't, fore more Ukrainian, feeling. UK is indictment of colonialism, which is something that, um, in the early decades of the Soviet rule is indeed focused on and then is strategically forgotten. so he is indeed someone who is highly complex. I know what you mean about the, trepidation and intimidation, um, intimidation that I've seen. Yeah. Uh, younger children, approach to Chencho with, but I think it's by listening to Tanya Alu Sing or Elena Posh, dance and performance poetry, suddenly it opens up, I think an artist who has been sometimes too confined by the national who, isolated on the bus.