The ThinkND Podcast
The ThinkND Podcast
Cultivating Hope, Part 2: Healing our National Dialogue and Political Life
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Episode Topic: Healing our National Dialogue and Political Life (https://go.nd.edu/88bdca)
In a political landscape where many Americans believe political discourse has become unproductive, stressful, and disrespectful, where do we find reason for hope? As part of the 2025-26 Notre Dame Forum on Cultivating Hope, Cardinal Robert W. McElroy, archbishop of the Archdiocese of Washington, D.C., joined University President Rev. Robert A. Dowd, C.S.C., for an exploration of the roots of America’s societal divides and strategies to move forward together toward a more unified future.
Featured Speakers:
- President Rev. Robert A. Dowd, C.S.C., University of Notre Dame
- Cardinal Robert W. McElroy, Archdiocese of Washington, D.C.
Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/1ec435.
This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Cultivating Hope. (https://go.nd.edu/640102)
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Welcome and Introduction
1Please welcome to the stage Kathleen Spro Cummings. John A. O'Brien Collegiate Professor of American Studies and History.
Speaker 2Thank you all for joining us. I am delighted to welcome you to this afternoon's conversation on healing our national dialogue and political life featuring Cardinal Robert McElroy. Father Robert Dowd. I'm the director of Notre Dame's Global Catholic Research Initiative, and one of its goals is to continue to place the university's scholarly resources at the service of the church using research on Catholicism past and present to inform and to respond to contemporary challenges and to promote dialogue on difficult topics. One way that we have long done this at Notre Dame is through the Notre Dame forum. Established in 2005. The Notre Dame Forum is an annual series that invites campus-wide reflection and dialogue about issues of importance to the university, the nation, and the world. This year, father Dowd has chosen the theme, cultivating Hope. His choice was beautifully and deliberately timed to coincide with the 2025 Jubilee year. Every 25 years, the Catholic Church celebrates a jubilee, inviting the faithful throughout the world to renewal, forgiveness, mercy, and pilgrimage. If not a physical pil pilgrimage to Rome, then a spiritual journey in our hearts. Pope Francis selected Pilgrims of Hope as the theme for the 2025 Jubilee. We all know that much of our national political discourse has become largely unproductive, stressful, and disrespectful. Today's timely conversation seeks to get to the root of our societal divides and offer insights and strategies for moving forward together toward a more unified future. We are extremely fortunate to have two interlocutors who are not only pilgrims of hope, but purveyors of hope. Father Bob has made hope a hallmark of his presidency. In his inaugural inaugural address just over a year ago, he invited the Notre Dame community to join him in building bridges and in sustaining hope. This conversation today is merely his latest attempt to nourish and nurture hope in our university community, in our nation, and throughout the world. Father Bob's conversational partner today is also a marketer of hope. Just two weeks ago at the Red Mass at St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington, dc. Cardinal McElroy invited men and women who work in law and justice to become architects of hope. Noting that hope is not the belief that everything comes out all right. That is merely optimism. No hope is the conviction that in our moments of greatest suffering in our lives, God will stand by us always. It represents an overwhelming impulse in the depths of the human heart that does not obscure the suffering of the present or the past, but finds in them chapters of grace. With courage, a foundation for a new future. Like many of you, I suspect that I, I like many of you, I, I find myself these days often very weary and in need of in for inspiration. Thus, I'm very much looking forward to this conversation with two men who have embroidered hope on their hearts and who strive to make the institutions they lead wellsprings of that hope. Today's event is co-sponsored by the Democracy Initiative, which seeks to establish Notre Dame as a leader in the study of democracy, both in the United States and worldwide as a convener for conversations about and actions to preserve democracy, and as a model for the formation of civically engaged citizens and public servants. We are very grateful to them for their support of this event. I'd like to invite all of you to submit any questions you may have during the discussion via the QR codes on the screens. Father Dowd and Cardinal McElroy will address as many questions as they can following their discussion. For now, please join me in welcoming to the stage the 18th President of Notre Dame, Reverend Robert Dowd and Cardinal Robert McElroy.
Speaker 3Welcome, Cardinal. Thank you. Please join. Thank you Kathy. Thanks for that introduction and it's great to be with all of you. Thank you for joining us here this afternoon, and thank you Cardinal for, uh, making your way back to Notre Dame. It's great to have you back here.
Speaker 4It's always good to be here.
Cardinal McElroy's Background and Role
Speaker 3So, uh, I have a little introduction and, uh, I know you like brief introductions. This one might be a little longer than you like, but, uh, here we go. Cardinal McElroy was appointed to lead the Archdiocese of Washington earlier this year by Pope Francis. Following nearly a decade of service as Bishop of San Diego. Cardinal McElroy is a native of California, and he was ordained a priest for the Archdiocese of San Francisco in 1980. His academic path reflects both deep faith and also intellectual curiosity. Among other degrees. He holds a doctorate in sacred theology from the Gregorian University in Rome, and a PhD in political science from Stanford. So a fellow political scientist, it's good to be with a fellow political scientist here. Pope Francis, uh, appointed him Cardinal in 2022. He is currently a member of the Vatican's Dicastery for promoting integral human development and the Dicastery for laity, family and life, both central to the church's engagement around the world. I'm glad to say that Cardinal McElroy is no stranger to Notre Dame. He has all kinds of great Notre Dame connections. His brother is a graduate. His sister is a graduate. His sister-in-law is a graduate and so is his niece. So, uh, great Notre Dame connections. Also, he was here on campus in 2023 for a forum conversation on the moral challenges of war and peace. And this past August I had the great privilege of being together with Cardinal McElroy in Japan together with, uh, other church leaders from the United States. We were there to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and that was a somber, but also a very inspiring experience, and it was great to be there Together with Cardinal McElroy. Cardinal McElroy has frequently spoken about the church's role as similar to that of a field hospital. Reminiscent of course, of Pope Francis. A field hospital where mercy and compassion are our first impulses, and where we do not look away from those things in our world that are hard and difficult in his homily delivered Upon his installation as Archbishop of Washington, he reminded us that, and I quote, we are called to be pilgrims of hope in a wounded world, not ignoring the suffering that abounds. Letting it call us to bring the gospel more deeply into our lives, into our nation, and into our world. It's, uh, clear that Cardinal McElroy is an ideal person to have to our campus to talk about what it means to cultivate hope so please join me in extending a warm welcome to Cardinal Robert McElroy. Now Cardinal, I understand. First of all, I understand you're not staying for our game tomorrow.
Speaker 4You have to get
Speaker 3back
Speaker 4to Washington. I have. I have a ceremony tomorrow night in Washington. But I do wanna say one thing, although I am a Californian, I never root for USCI
Speaker 3am. So I kind of took that for granted, but I'm glad to, I'm glad to hear that. Confirm that you confirm that. But, uh, the weather forecast tomorrow is not looking great. And we could probably use a few prayers from you.
Speaker 4I'll, I'll
Speaker 3give
Speaker 4you those.
Challenges and Surprises in Washington
Speaker 3Maybe if you stay that somehow the weather will improve. But, anyway, just great to have you here. Thank you so much. So after 10 years of ministry in the diocese of San Diego, you were instilled as, uh, installed as Archbishop of Washington. that's a big transition. You went from one coast, essentially to the other coast. You went to our nation's capital. what has struck you about this new role as serving the Archdiocese of Washington, especially at this particular moment? has anything surprised you as you've taken on this new responsibility in the Archdiocese of Washington?
Speaker 4well being Archbishop of Washington is different on certain levels than being bishop of San Diego. when I was bishop of San Diego. they're actually, it's a larger diocese. They're about a million and a half Catholics. But my primary role, was, leading the parish school communities, all of the social services, uh, working with the people, whom the church serves and the communities of faith. So that was my primary role there and my overwhelming role there. Washington is different. In the sense there are three levels to the role of being Archbishop of Washington. The most important is still working with the parishes and the schools and the communities of faith, because that's the heart of the church. And so, for the past, six months I've been, I, I've met with all the priests individually and then, uh, through a syndel process of, of dialogue. I asked each of the pastors to appoint three representatives from parish leadership and I, I met with them in groups of 15 to try to get their perspective on their parishes and then the wider life within the Archdiocese. So overwhelmingly, that is my role as Archbishop of Washington. But there are two other dimensions in Washington that I did not have in San Diego. The first one is. Because it is the capital. many, many, Catholic institutions in the country have either headquarters there, educational institutions there, social service centers there. So, part of my work is Archbishop is, is collaborating with all of those groups in, in that, in the city of Washington. And, and the, then the other one is because it is the nation's capital. There's a role I have whenever I speak on the moral dimensions of public policy questions. Now, in the United States, there's a conference of bishops, and, and the Conference of Bishops is the official liaison between the bishops of the United States and the government of the United States. In terms of speaking now, so my role is not that, but, as the Archbishop of Washington, as any bishop faces, we have to speak to the moral dimensions of public policy from time to time. And because it's in Washington, it has a resonance, that it would not have, have, have elsewhere. as to the surprises, I would, I would say this. Having gone around now, the Archdiocese of Washington is Washington DC and then five counties of Southern Maryland. and so what I've been surprised by is the diversity of those communities. Uh, you know, there are their neighborhoods within Washington DC very distinct, from one another with differing histories. lots of transitions going on, you know, ethnic and, and, and demographic change going on. lots of young people. and then, in, in the counties of Maryland, there's some counties with great wealth and there are other counties that are middle class, and then the southern counties in Maryland are more rural and they have a deep and abiding sense of history. Because that's where Catholicism came in Maryland. and thus the birth breed of Catholicism in the United States. So there are many small churches there that are parishes, uh, in our diocese, and they have a wonderful sense of history. so I've been surprised not that there's diversity, but, but that breadth of diversity, so that, that was more, it is more interesting. and complicated, uh, than I would've thought. So.
Speaker 3Great. The, uh, yeah, I, I mean it's a, it's a large archdiocese. It's in our nation's capital, and it is very diverse and suppose in many ways, uh, very different from the, the diocese of San Diego, which is also a very diverse diocese, but I suppose in a, in different ways. But do you find that because you're Archbishop of Washington. You're a political scientist and, and you have been engaged in the national dialogue even before arriving in Washington, that, that people expect you to speak out on, on the issues of, of the day and comment on policy and politics.
Speaker 4They do. And, and that's one of the things I have to wrestle with, because my primary role is to be a bishop of the communities there.
Speaker 5Alright.
Transforming Political Discourse
Speaker 4I'm not there primarily to speak on, certainly on political issues. that's not the centerpiece of what I do and sometimes people expect that that be the centerpiece of what I do. so yes and part partly'cause I have written in on things and spoken on things in the past. So, it's important for me. To always keep anchored in that reality of what my true role is and my primary role is. At the same time, you know, people often ask me, you know, it depends. Whatever I get into, if I, if I, if I get into discussing the question of abortion, for example, or get in the question of poverty, people from opposite sides will write to me and say, you're getting into politics. Okay. And so where they don't mind it on the other one, you know? and so it's important to understand what the church's role in this all is in its own understanding. The church has no specific role in the, in the order of politics or the order of public policy. There is no specifically political role for the church period. The church has a moral role within. The political and public order to speak to the morality of issues. And I think it's a very key distinction'cause people mix it up all the time. People think the church should or should not be involved in politics or that if it's speaking to a question, it's automatically a political response. And, uh, it's not, it needs to be rooted in the moral understanding. We always, I, I need to always come at that. And the church always needs to come in. Is there a moral question here that's of import and if it is, then the church contributes to the public debate in a couple of different ways. One is to help illuminate the fact that there are moral questions here that we can't simply reduce. Many questions in our society are purely political. Purely about power economics and so many, many, though raise the deepest human questions of morality. And all through our history, it's been important that religious leaders contribute to the, to the debate on this question. You know, at, at the beginning of our country, uh, we sometimes forget this'cause, uh, we've been in existence now for almost 250 years. When the, when the country was launched, it was an experiment. There had not been a republic, really ize, you know, since the Roman Republic. And for that reason, this was a very, dangerous proposition. Uh, and the founders believed on a very deep level, it could only succeed. Religion flourished, and here's why. They believe that they believed that only religion could generally bring from the human heart a sense of the willingness to look past self-interest or group interest to a wider sense of what the common good is. So for that reason, they thought religion was essential, not in a direct force in politics, certainly. For governance, but rather in contributing in the human heart and in the understanding of the issues that come forth. So that's the, the background for the church's role, in speaking to political issues. It speaks not in terms of the politics or it should not speak in terms of the politics, but rather solely of the moral questions involved.
Speaker 3You have, uh, you've often talked about the importance of transforming our political discourse in this country and the need to, to make essentially, three transitions in order to achieve this I transformation or, or begin this transformation. I'm gonna read aloud each of these and maybe after, uh, after each, uh, you could just say a few words about, uh, about what you mean. Uh, the first is, the first transition is from grievance to gratitude. From grievance to gratitude.
Speaker 4You know, we're not unique as a country in this regard, but we're one of a small minority of countries we're, for us. The ties that bind us are not ties of blood or ethnicity. We are not a nation founded because we have common ties of blood. We're bound together by the aspirations of our founders who have tried to live out those aspirations offered with great success many times with failure, and thus reform and the need for change, but it's that which binds us together as a people. It's a wonderful thing, particularly for us as people of faith. You know that what binds us is the aspirations to freedom and human dignity. Uh, care for all the rights of all, the empowerment of all de democratic rights. but our patriotism thus as Americans is not a possession. We are not. Proud to be Americans primarily.'cause we were born here, we're proud to be Americans because of what our, our country aspires to be and to do. And I have to say that's a very faith-filled approach to patriotism in terms of Catholic understanding of things too. You know, that there are ties to our country really come from the country's willingness. To try to live out the core of the gospel. And one of the things is there's a beauty to this vision, and, and we, we, we've always gotta know that, uh, there have been tremendous failures in, in, in, in the way the vision was, brought about in the first place or envisioned, and also how it was implemented in various ways. And thus, the country tries to change and reform in these various ways. So we don't wanna canonize it as one time, they had all the right answers. But rather it, it, it is hopefully a self-performing vision which calls us always to try to seek those values ever more deeply in, in the age in which we live. And that's a beautiful thing. And one of my worries in the present moment is I don't hear people speaking. With the sense of beauty for that, that we have inherited and that binds us together. I remember we're we're coming down the book, uh, sorry. The 250th anniversary and fights have already begun about how it will be celebrated on the smallest subject. Okay. I remember the bicentennial, how, how many of old enough to remember the bicentennial? Okay. That was a beautiful moment. Because we were able at that moment, for the most part, to capture parts of that dream and to dwell on it. And so my concern on this question on why we need to transition from grievance, to gratitude is that, I think tremendously we have become a nation of grievance where we focus more on what is lacking and particularly what is lacking for me or my group. Rather than on that which binds us together. So that, that's, I, I, I would, I think our way out of this is in part, gonna be trying to recapture that, which binds us together on this very deep level.
Speaker 3Second transition that you talk about is from the politics of warfare to shared purpose, from the politics of warfare to shared purpose.
Speaker 4Yes. Uh, I don't want to obscure the fact that, politics has always been adversarial in the sense in the United States we can, we can't underestimate it. but, but there, there was a shift that occurred in the nineties, and, and I would crystallize it in two moments. Duke Gingrich's platform, the contract with America, which launched in a particular direction, in a way that was, tendentious. At the same time you had, remember the Clinton administration when they were elected, they had what they call Politiced, the War Room. Do you remember the War Room? What was different was, and it was noted at the time when he won the election, the war room continued. In other words, this mentality of warfare, which is a deeper, on, on both sides in that period, understanding of the conflict between the two parties, has, has, has, has, has done I think, uh, terrible damage to us. one indicator of that I would say is this, I, I won't quite get the numbers right, but something like this. a mid sixties Atlantic Magazine asked people in a poll this question, would you be greatly distressed, greatly upset if your son or daughter married someone from the opposite political party? You know what the answer was? What percentage? 5%. They did it a few years ago. It was 40%. It shows the shift that what has this notion of warfare, of tribalism has seeped into us. And I think it's very, very destructive. in part because, and is partly related to social media and the algorithms and all the, those things which take us to our corners and accelerate our anger at each other, but. I believe that the, the party label has become shorthand now for worldview in, in the views of many, many people, perhaps a majority. That is when you know someone's who they're for in this fight, you know a lot more about them than who they're for politically, you know, their whole worldview and, and, and, and, and that I think is a very damaging development in our society. And so we have to, again, as a transition from that to more the sense of shared purpose and meaning and endeavor that we have, you know, as, as one society.
Speaker 3And the third transition that, that you talk about is from insularity to compassion, from insularity to compassion.
Speaker 4Yes. You know, uh, Catholic social teaching. Crosses the spectrum is, is really bifurcated by our political structure in the present day. Uh, on the Republican side, tend to be more issues like abortion, euthanasia, certain aspects of religious liberty On the democratic side, uh, there's more coalescence with issues say of, of, of poverty, of peace and, and, and of, uh, you know, the, the environment and human dignity. so. Because of that. Now it's one. In one way it's good for the church because it prevents us from ever siding with any party because our views are absolutely bifurcated. But it, it makes it hard for Catholic voters. It also makes it hard for Catholic political officials. There are very few political officials. Who really represent even 70% of Catholic social teaching because of that barrier right in the middle. That cuts it into, some years ago, maybe 15 years ago, the Bishop's Conference did a study on this question, how do we deal with the fact that our people are cut in half on this? And so they did all sorts of questions with people at all different levels in the life of the church. How can we bridge this gulf? and what they found was there was an answer, which is great. The answer was compassion. When people came at questions with the starting point of compassion, when they could see the suffering involved on various elements of, of the different issues that were divided, they could bridge together. It would bring them over the lines. Not everybody, but it was, there was a coalescence. And so what they'd suggested it didn't get implemented, you know, we've gone the opposite direction, is that compassion is a way of understanding how do we as Catholics come at these issues in the way that bridges, they had a very interesting experiment in the state of Washington. they got together and they decided, that for a period of five years. The, the, the diocese of the state would focus in, in terms of kind of social teaching, public policy on the child from conception until the age of five. What that meant was the child in the womb and the child is their growing and, you know, needing food and healthcare and all these different things. So it was a way of bridging the Catholic community together. They had, they had had some. Gatherings for that. And, and you had sides that, let's just say didn't cooperate a lot. Generally they cooperated a lot because there was this bridge. So I think compassion is a way to do, uh, we're in a tough time on this quest, these questions, but it, it's not an irredeemable time and there are ways that can bring us together. So I think these transitions would help us.
The Role of the Church in Politics
Speaker 3Yeah, incredibly, incredibly insightful and, uh. Yeah. The question is how do we, how do we make these transitions? How do we make these transitions? and, and it is, does the church have a role to play, if you think, in helping, at least helping the Catholic community to make these transitions or, the Christian community, the broader Christian community?
Speaker 4Oh, oh, I do. And, and in a very real sense, much of this needs to take place on the parish level is in parish communities. Parish communities are, tend to be diverse, not, not, uniformly diverse, but diverse in terms of these political bridging. So people understand whether we, we did it, what was the syndel process in San Diego on it? And, and what they found was, when people have been in their sinal sessions, people who diametrically disagree on the substance of things. And were saying that in the dialogues nonetheless came out. Feeling very bonded with one another.'cause they were encountering them as people of faith. And so there was a much greater openness that came from that. it really was one of the, particularly the first set of sessions we did, and, and, uh,'cause we had note taking the University of San Diego had helped us to do a note taking, process for it. And the notes would come out, you'd see what people were saying. They were disagreeing all over the place, but they uniformly came out not only. Pleased with the process, but some of them formed small on gru going prayer sessions, groups, and the different things, people across the, across the divide. So I, I do think we have a role, how we make that in the wider society is a tougher thing.
Speaker 3Yes. And it's also, I think, notable that Pope Leo talked about the importance of bridge building.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 3almost immediately after becoming Pope, as a, a theme. Missionary church going out into the world, um, moving beyond its comfort zone, but also engaging in the kind of bridge building I think that you're, that you're talking about. And, uh, so your academic background both as uh, someone who has a doctorate in sacred theology and also a doctorate in political science, gives you a ethic, special insight into both the teachings of the church and our political system. What can the US political system learn from the church? And, what can the church learn from the US political system?
Speaker 4Let's see. F anything? I'm gonna be in trouble. Resolve the second one, the answer
Speaker 3may nothing,
Speaker 4you know, this is this conversation. So is it okay if I give him the second part? Um. Well, I, I, I would, I would say, two things now. one is in terms of, of, uh, Pope Francis' document Ferelli 2D, which, which talks about what love of neighbors supposed to mean for us. I, I do think that would be a great help in our society, for us to really grapple with that as individuals and as communities and, and as. Citizens and believers to in our public roles. and, and I think it's, it's a vision that the love of neighbor is all encompassing. Now, it doesn't mean we can do everything, but it means we have to have that basic outlook on the people we encounter, even those who are our political adversaries. and the second is this syndel type of approach of discussion. You know, we, we have to get back to discussions across lines in which we can talk about public policy issues and divisive issues without going to our corners. And, you know, one of the great, you know, better than I, one of the great tragedies is within family life, this is corrosive. and so we, we, we need to move it. I think the church is, uh, the sinal way of doing it, which engages in hard questions where people disagree, but the bondedness of understanding, you know, we assistance, we're all in this as members of one's society, of a society, but a great dream and a great history and a great potential and a lot to learn from and to do so,
Speaker 3yes. So the, uh, the theme of course of the Jubilee Years, pilgrims of Hope. Um,
Speaker 4no, he, let me skip over the, uh, the second one.
Speaker 3Oh, we could get back to that, but, uh, anyway, we could come back to that if you like. Well,
Speaker 4I'll answer the second one. Yeah.
Speaker 3Alright.
Speaker 4I'd say there are two.
Speaker 3I was, I was giving you a break there, but you are a courageous
Speaker 4That's right,
Speaker 3man. And, uh,
Speaker 4well, well, well, I'd say truth. These one is. And some of you would know this, there is all one area in the church's life, that is directly profited from the American experience, and that is the question of religious liberty. Before the second Vatican Council, uh, Catholic teaching was basically that if, if you lived in a country where it was a majority Catholic, the government had a responsibility to make Catholic. Catholicism, the official religion, if there was a, if there was not a majority of Catholic, uh, then you did the best you can. but you there, there, there was, was no, no. And there, there had to be rights for Catholics, but there would be no, there was no right to have another religion be, uh, an official religion in Catholic teaching. And that was'cause there, there was a, a theological premise error has no rights. Because the other s are all erroneous, they don't have rights. John Courtney Murray, who uh, was a great, a Jesuit moral theologian, took the Catholic experience in the United States and, and basically, and, and the American bishops press this home too, said that to Rome, look, here's a country where there's no established religion. And yet Catholicism is flourishing, it's thriving, it's creative, it's energetic, it's faith filled. And so partly because of that, uh, experience in this country that the doctrine on religious liberty changed that Poppen had called that the greatest episode or chapter of development of the history of Vatican was the change in religious liberty and. The experience in the United States. So, so in that way, the United States did teach the other way. This is gonna get me into trouble, but, is this, the, the Democrat process in the United States, the way we do things in our society is the role of women in the life of the church. I think the church is grappling with the role of women. It was a big issue with the senate. I think, uh, we have much to learn within the church how to do that. and, and not, not, not, this last sin we had included, many, many bishops. but there were over a hundred delegates, mostly women, uh, who were lay people, some religious women, some consecrated women. And it tremendously changed the conversation at the Senate. And so I, I do think that's one
Speaker 3that is a, uh, that's without a doubt, something that, uh, there's more learning to do there. Uh, there's no doubt. And, uh, that's an important topic, women's role in the, the role of women in the church. And, uh. It's notable that Pope Francis named, uh, some women to rather high ranking responsibilities in the Vatican. But no doubt, we need to, uh, discern together about, um, the way forward because, uh, obviously women play such an important role and the church currently, and we need to find ways of amplifying their voices for sure. Uh, and also putting to, to good use for the church, their remarkable leadership skills, without a doubt. so this, this is the Jubilee year. The jubilee theme is Pilgrims of Hope. what does it mean and how can we be Pilgrims of hope? to some extent. You've been alluding to this already, but I'd love to hear you reflect on this. Uh. How can we be pilgrims of hope? And here especially, let me bring it down to this. At a university like this, at a Catholic university, how can we cultivate hope here at a Catholic university? How can we be pilgrims of hope at a Catholic university like Notre Dame?
Speaker 4I, I would say. Working on the dial level of dialogue within the university, because partly we're talking about how do we get back to a time when we can talk with one another across these boundaries, effectively, effectively understanding, you know, this, this American Vision and society, which we're all part of. so the university, I think, can help foster that. methods of dialogue that do that. I, I do wanna say I am very hopeful on this in the long run. We're in a difficult moment now on this. but when I was in San Diego, we did a survey for our, when we for the Citadel Project. And one of the things we did, it was mostly on church questions. We put some questions in there that we're meant to get at. What is the level of polarization a among our people? Okay. Uh, and it had to do with questions both inside the church and outside the church for public. we, we serve what we received about 27,000, surveys on it. what was striking now that's San Diego and San Diego's different from here. But the core thing was, is, is I believe true, more or less across the country. what it was, the two extremes, the two polarized parts were less than 20% a peace. Almost 60% of the people were in the middle. That is, they could be moved. They weren't in lockstep. They might identify with one side or the other, but they weren't in lockstep. To me, this gives great hope, that we have to empower, the middle, who have that openness to get beyond, the strident, identification with either side is the real impediment now. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 6And what gives you hope or who gives you hope these days?
Speaker 4You know where I see hope, uh, is in, in the parish communities when I visit there.
Speaker 6Hmm.
Audience Q&A
Speaker 4I've been visiting all our parishes and you see people of tremendous heroism. Uh, when I was a pastor, I, I loved being a pastor much more than I loved being a bishop. I was a pastor, was same place for 15 years. It was a great place for me. And people sometimes say to me, when people don't, you get discouraged when people come to you with their problems. You know, it doesn't weigh you down. And I would say no, because most often when I would, people would leave after talking with me, I would be impressed. At the way they carried on their lives, often with enormous challenges and did so in ways that were truly heroic. I, and I mean Reg, these are regular people, but how they bear up with certain challenges in their lives, their family lives, and to me, that's a tremendous source of hope. You know, that's God present and uh, uh, working in the human heart and soul. And so I, I still find that the greatest source of hope. Yeah. In the church, in the world.
Speaker 3Thank you. Yeah. Wonderful. So, uh, we have a, a few minutes now for some questions from the audience and uh, I have them right here on this trusty iPad actually. And, uh, the first one is from Kevin. Kevin is an alumnus, and the question is, what practical ways can a diocese, parish or Catholic university encourage Sonata, listening among Catholics in order to foster, common ground, finding common ground in our church and in our society? So, what practical ways can a diocese parish or a Catholic university encourage Synod listening, to foster finding common ground in our church and our society?
Speaker 4I, I'd say two, two methods. One is the synod method in, in a sense of a dialogue, is basically this, you have to have people for a period of time, but basically you have. Each person prepares like a three minute statement on what they wanna say on whatever the topic is. And you go around, you have prayer to begin with in scripture, then everybody goes around and says their three minute worth and no one interrupts. And we had to have, we had a method in San Diego that was devised by two, uh. Professors at the San Diego state who, who had developed it for prisons because with prison groups you gotta make sure they don't interrupt. So it was a great method for that. But it was your, so you listen first to everybody and then the second round you speak about what you heard, you can't speak about what you talked about. It has to be over something else that you heard. and, and then the third tries to come to some common understanding. The reason it's effective is everybody gets to say what they want to say and everybody listens to what they say and nobody interrupts it. And in the second round, people pick things from different elements so it builds on it. So that kind of a method is a very effective way, because I say people who are not on the same wavelength really. Find it as a way of coming together. It, it's very helpful. The second thing is, you know, it is just true in, in terms of all these things of, of people telling their stories on, on, on any of these divisive issues. To understand, uh, what I said about compassion, to understand where compassion lies on various issues, is to hear people who are in that boat speak about it. And, and when they do, people are touched. Whatever the issue is, people are touched, whether it's it's a mother after, an abortion and, and talking about that experience or whether it's an immigrant, people are touched by that and it draws out the humanity. So those are ways I think, I think that the very type of conversation we need can be encouraged.
Speaker 3Thank you. Thank you, Cardinal from Mary, a faculty member. How can church leaders and Catholics more generally call out objectionable policies without appearing partisan?
Speaker 4You know, it's really hard that that is, it's a very challenge. Sunday, I'd like to show you my emails. You know, we're pro and con, uh, you know, depending what the issue is, you know, it, it, whatever I'm speaking of. I, I, I do think it's important to be consistent with Catholic teaching. I do think it's important not to get into political figures at all. I never mentioned a political figure when I'm talking about an issue ever, because that draws out the, you know, fun. I'll talk about an issue or an action, or, but, but, but not name the people involved on one side or the other. so I, I, but it's hard because
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 4People, react against it as a political act if it, even if it's a moral question that has public policy if they disagree.
Speaker 3Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the great challenges is that people just self-censor then, because they know that it, it might trigger. Uh, reaction, a very negative reaction be interpreted as partisan. So then people simply stop talking.
Speaker 4Well,
Speaker 3that's why they don't voice their, views, and that's very problematic. It's especially problematic on a university campus where we should be discussing the hard topics and doing so respectfully.
Speaker 4That's why priests don't like to preach in any of these things.
Speaker 3Yeah,
Speaker 4you almost never hear doms on these. I used to teach social teaching at our seminary, and I'd gather the guys afterwards, a few years afterwards say, oh, how many of you are giving topic on any topic? You know? Mm-hmm. And, and the reason is they don't wanna divide their people. And so that part of the gospel doesn't get preached. And, and I understand it, but it's, it's, and you've got the same thing here. Yeah.
Speaker 3At the same thing. Yeah, exactly. Same challenge for sure. this question is from Eric, an undergraduate student. How can we as a country promote patriotism while avoiding the dangers of nativism and extreme nationalism?
Speaker 4I think by having this aspirational notion of patriotism. Okay. That is, we are not a great nation. Because we were born here, or, or because of our economic power or any of these things. Patriotism is this, for us as Americans, this set of aspirations, and that is a self-critical thing, okay? Sometimes patriot patriotism that they're talking about is the counterpoints are canonization of a society, alright? Of, of, of, of saying. That society's sacrosanct or, and, and our patriotism is not that it's precisely not that what at, but it's at its best. It is aspirational in these wonderful ways, but then it is also self-critical by those same aspirations. And so I think there's a temper. Upon falling into these other, the na, the nationalism, you know, which, which really is, I'm here because of I, my, my, I love my country'cause of ties of blood or'cause I happen to be born here. And that's the primary way. Now for us, we have the luxury of having this alternative starting point for us as a country that still must bind us. This has to be our Patriots. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3Uh, the next question is from Dennis and alumnus. Archbishop Romero argued that love of the poor is a path to unity for society. How can concern for the poor and for the planet bring us closer together rather than be wedge issues, which divide us?
Speaker 4I, I think in terms of love for the poor part of it can be understanding. What the reality of our assistance for the poor is. For example, uh, uh, you know, uh, we've had the cutoff of, a ID assistance to the, cut. Most people think when they do polling, most Americans think that about 15% of the budget goes to foreign aid, when in fact, for non-military foreign aid is less than 1%. And so I think partly clearing away a lot of the baggage in, in this discussion and allowing us to, to, to, to confront the thing of, of our bonds with the poor everywhere, you know, Americans are generous, in terms of, private philanthropy and all of, all of these ways that are wonderful. With the poor and the sign of love for the poor. and, and that for our society as a whole to have that same love is very, very important.
Speaker 3Right. And uh, finally the last question is, uh, from Kate, an undergraduate student. What can students do to reverse polarization? What can students do to reverse polarization?
Closing Remarks and Gift Presentation
Speaker 4Uh, I would say try to promote dialogue insofar as you can. I'd say don't eliminate discussions of topics because of afraid of frictions over them. I mean, you have, we all have to do this delicately, but I'm afraid a lot of things don't get addressed now in the universities or, or within family. I mean, it's all across the board because. Of not the desire of not causing friction. That's a danger, it's a danger for us as society. So I'd say as students to try to promote dialogue, uh, this kind of builds on the relationships you have with people, uh, so that if this, if Notre Dame becomes a community known for its dialogue across the barriers society finds. So, destructive. That would be a wonderful thing.
Speaker 6Well, thank you. Thank you, Cardinal. That's, uh, really inspiring. Please
Speaker 3stand up here. So, uh, Cardinal will be from a cardinal. This is a bust of a cardinal as well. This is a, uh, uh, actually a, uh, a beautiful bronze of Cardinal John Henry Cardinal Newman, who, St. John Henry Cardinal Newman, who is being declared a doctor of the church. And, uh, this beautiful bronze of him at his desk writing is, uh, is made by, um, it's made by Father Anthony Lau, a Holy Cross priest and artist here at Notre Dame, professor of Art for many years. So Cardinal, uh, please, uh, accept this gift as a token of our love and appreciation for you.
Speaker 7It
Speaker 3always has to be a photo and, uh, it's a bit heavy.
Speaker 4Great.
Speaker 3But, uh, please join me in thanking Cardinal McElroy Cardinal. You, uh, you certainly give us hope. Uh, you're an amazing agent of hope and, uh, your commitment to, to the gospel, your commitment to service of the church, uh, you are a true servant leader. and, uh, I know that, um, you're somebody who, uh, does his best to follow Jesus in word and deed. And we're so grateful, for your presence here at Notre Dame. We're so grateful. For your service to the church. Thank you very much. God bless you.