The ThinkND Podcast
The ThinkND Podcast
Dialogues Across the Decades, Part 1: Past, Present & Future
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Episode Topic: Past, Present & Future
Chart the Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program’s beginnings, how it has evolved over forty years, and what the future might look like for students, academically, socially, and personally as they learn to lead with purpose.
Featured Speakers:
- Angie Chamblee '73
- Christy Greene '96, University of Notre Dame
- Irasema Trujillo Hernandez '24, Stronger Together Unidos
Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/0403e6.
This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Dialogues Across the Decades: Conversations with Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program Alumni.
Thanks for listening! The ThinkND Podcast is brought to you by ThinkND, the University of Notre Dame's online learning community. We connect you with videos, podcasts, articles, courses, and other resources to inspire minds and spark conversations on topics that matter to you — everything from faith and politics, to science, technology, and your career.
- Learn more about ThinkND and register for upcoming live events at think.nd.edu.
- Join our LinkedIn community for updates, episode clips, and more.
Welcome to the Series
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138hello everyone. Thank you for joining episode one of our series dialogue across the Decades Conversations with Balfour Hesberg alumni. This is the first of a few we'll be hosting, and today we'll be focusing on Balfour's past, present, and future, and just put some historical context around the program and talk about its evolution to this point. Some of you may know what that looks like, but many of you don't because we've been doing this for 40 years. So it's always good to provide some kind of historical context so that we can, when we look to the future, we know exactly where we're going because we know where we've been. and so we have some, some great guests today, one of which is gonna provide us with. Amazing context and to talk about the evolution of the program. And then we have a recent grad who's gonna take us through, more recent experience and maybe some suggestions for the future. but before we begin, I'd like to thank our co-sponsors for our dialogue through the decades, of course, the Balfour Hesberg Scholars Program and the Notre Dame Alumni Association, who has graciously helped us with these squad casts, not only promoting, but setting these things up so that we can, can reach all of you. I'd also like to thank Dr. Lucia, Cecilia Lucero, who is our current Balfour Director. she's been working tirelessly on, curating programming for the celebration of the 40th anniversary of Balfour. It's incredible that we've, we've made it this far, but, Cecilia's been part of the program for quite some time and, has kept this running. Beautifully and has absolutely been a huge part of the evolution of the program. So I'd like to, to shout her out as well. my name is Kristy Green. I am am honored to be with you for this next hour. This is truly a treat for me. I'm a 96 grad, but I was part of the 1992 Balfour cohort and it was actually the Balfour Aetna Scholars. and we'll talk a little bit more about that. and one of our esteemed guests, Angie Chamblee, uh, was my advisor during that time, who has become a dear friend and colleague as we worked together in the first year of studies, through which many of you matriculated. I was fortunate enough to direct the program. I believe I'm the only former participant then director to do so. and did that until I moved away at, in December of oh nine. and currently I still work for Notre Dame. I couldn't quite get away, even though we've moved all over Mississippi, Alabama, New York. It's, I've, yeah, since leaving Notre Dame, I've been all over the country, um, and read applications for undergrad admissions for about a decade, and then transitioned over to file rating for the law school, um, about three years ago. So, you know, you're always a part of Notre Dame and Notre Dame's always a part of you. Um, so this is really a full circle moment for me. I, like I said, I, I can't believe it's been 40 years and that I did this 30 years ago. My reunion is coming up this June and it's just mind blowing. So again, thank you all of you for tuning in. I'd like to welcome our speakers now. And this, again, is just such a treat because I think so highly of these two individuals. Um, as I mentioned, Angie Chamblee is a dear friend, former colleague, academic advisor. this woman has worn so many hats over the years, and you may have heard her name and maybe you never met her, but in some way while she was working at Notre Dame, she touched your life and she was in the background making things happen that you didn't even realize. So, and I'd like to point out that your, your screen is perfectly fine. If you know Angie, you know that she does not age. And so, um, you don't have to adjust anything. She's gonna let us know what moisturizer she's using, but at the end, because she looks, I think time has stood still for you, Angie. So Angie, like I said, served in first year of studies for 38 years.
Speaker 3Yep.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_14313838 years. she advised countless students oversaw course scheduling, first year orientation. Again, all of you participated in first year orientation if you were a student at Notre Dame. And that was all Angie. Um, she was a liaison to all the colleges and the school of architecture. And I don't know if this is most importantly, but one of the things that I think, is so incredible about her story is that she truly was a pioneer at Notre Dame as one of the first women to graduate from Notre Dame in 1973. Yes, yes, yes. so kudos to her for that. And she left an incredible legacy behind, One big part of, I think her legacy, I don't know if she would say this, but I think a huge part is the creation of the Balfour Hesberg Scholars Program in 1986. this was her brainchild. There was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears that went into, you know, crafting this program and keeping it running. And that is certainly not lost on me at all as a former participant. but it is truly because of her foundation and her forward thinking that the program has, has been thriving for 40 years. Um, so thank you. And then I'd also like to welcome my new friend, Trujillo. She's the class of 2024. She was, all right, hold on everybody. And I'm gonna go as slowly as possible'cause there's a lot here. Um, she was political science, global affairs, and Latino studies. she left no stone unturned. She graduated last spring with her master's from Oxford. That's Oxford, England. Y'all. Not Oxford, Ohio. Oxford, the Oxford, um, in migration studies after securing a scholarship to do so. Uh, adema was the top 1% of her high school class. She earned the amazing Lilly Endowment Scholarship was part of building Bridges and the Notre Dame Washington program to name a few things. I had to cut down your bio because it's, there's, there's too much. she is also the founder and co-executive director of Stronger Together Unidos, a bilingual student led 5 0 1 C3. it's a nonprofit organization that is, closing educational gaps for Latino and first generation underserved students across the northeast and central Indiana. amazing. currently lives in Oxford. hopefully I'm gonna get out there to see you the next time. I'm, I'm in England. but she's working in public policy and political consulting and one day plans to, not that she hasn't done enough, but, plans to pursue a joint JD MBA, uh, to focus on public interest law with a long-term goal of building a practice dedicated to advancing the rights and opportunities for migrant youth worldwide. so my next goal is to convince her to do that at Notre Dame because I just wanna read your application. so after all that and feeling like I need to revisit my resume after introducing these amazing ladies, again, I would like to just thank you both for, for being here. And this is, like I said, truly a trait. So. all right, let's dive in. Angie, I'm gonna start with you. Like I said, I don't think it makes any sense to talk about what we're doing with Balfour now without looking back at where we started and what that looked like for you. I just think it's important for the audience to know, you know, how did you even pull this off given the amount of money that you had, how you secured that funding, why you started it, and where I'm sure it was, was partly because of what you were seeing with your students. but you know, who is the target audience? What were the goals? Why did you feel like this was something that needed to be part of the first year studies?
Why Balfour Was Needed
Speaker 5Well, all of those are good questions. Thank you. So honoring me and with your kind words. For those of you that I've worked with, I truly enjoyed working with all of you. And, I must say being part of Balfour from the very beginning, was indeed an honor. But I don't think I can talk about the history of, without talking a little bit about myself, because until you have some idea of a person's journey, you don't quite understand why they make the decisions they do. So I was born in 1951. I know the ancient history for many of you, but during my high school years, in 63 there was the march on Washington DC In 65 there was the march, from Selma to Montgomery, which many of you know of as Bloody Sunday. Martin Luther King was assassinated and it. In 69, I enrolled as a green and knowing first year students at St. Mary's University of Notre Dame, at the time that iCare, the schools were murdered. And at the end, senior year, there was gonna be one school called the University of Notre Dame. And a junior year that we discovered, that the universities decided that just wasn't gonna happen. So there were many of us who couldn't figure out where we were gonna graduate from. when my came, when I came here in 69, there were 12 black women. by the end of the four years, there were only four of us who graded two from Notre Dame, my roommate, and myself, and two from St. Mary's. So. That gives you an idea of the struggles that I led my life and what led me to really come to the decision that there are other things that needed to be done, or many things that needed to be done at the university. So in 76, I began work in the first year of studies as an advisor. And during that time, we had all kinds of discussions about how is it best to help students make a successful transition from high school to college life. So in 86, we established the first class of students that participated in bour, but the first thing we had to do was identify the problem, low enrollment numbers. Retention was a struggle for many. And for those of you who have heard of Beverly Daniel Tatum. She wrote a wonderful book that's called, I'm trying to think of the name of the book now. why does everyone sit at the, table together?
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138What the the lunch table? Yeah.
Speaker 5There you go.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah.
Speaker 5and she characterized it and crystallized what I also experienced and many of you experienced, when you came here as a student who, wasn't part of the majority group. Number one, psychological impact of racism. Students of color often feel they do not belong, leading to a loss of confidence and self-esteem. Number two, social isolation. Students often feel compelled to sit together for support because they are not integrated into the broader campus community, which can create a hostile environment for. Number three, lack of inclusion in curriculum. Many students don't see themselves or their histories reflected in what they are taught, making the educational environment feel irrelevant. I'm sorry, irrelevant and exclusionary. Mm-hmm. Number four, microaggression and language students can face daily indignities, such as being mocked for their accent or language, skin color, hair, which creates a painful and unwelcome atmosphere. And lastly, institutional racism beyond individual interactions. Systemic racism within universities result in a stubborn rationalized degree. Awarding gap. So what that means is that there are fewer graduates, there are fewer faculty out there to teach, and therefore you don't see yourself. So those are the patterns that I experienced, and those same patterns were the same things that I saw first year students of color going through small enrollment, low retention. As I mentioned, we started off with 12 black women and only four of us graduated as a first year advisor. Then as an assistant dean, it gave me many opportunities to talk to people about the cycles that I was seeing. So over the years, I became close with Father Ted Eal t Hoffman. I'm sorry, let me back up. Ted Hesper, I call him Father Ted. I think those of you who've been around the university know who that is. Emal T Hoffman. He was the dean of the first year of studies, the person who hired me. And then there were many people in the development office to talk to and to influence in terms of trying to set up as a priority, coming up with some type of funding for funding a special program that would help with the transition issues that we saw. So the first company that came up with funding for us was back in 85, and the funding came through GTE, which is former known as General Telephone and Electric Corporation. It was about$2,000, but we could only spend the interest on the money. We couldn't spend$2,000. So in that very first year, we had nine students who were here for six weeks, and we emphasized mentoring, academic support. Building community. And those, I believe, are also pillars of what we continue to see Balfour Hesberg known, known for. We originally start off with Balfour
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138and Can I ask you one thing? Sorry. When you were setting this up and kind of chatting, excuse me, with development. Sure. Multi, was there any, was there any pushback?
Speaker 5Of course there's always pushback, but I mean, that to me is to be expected. It's part of our journey. You're always gonna get pushback regardless of you go into that first job, you go into that first day of school. I'll give you a perfect example. when I first came to the university, many of you have heard this story. I walked in the cafeteria and everyone were sitting at these round table and I thought to myself, okay, Angie, you're gonna walk in there and you're gonna sit at the very first empty seat. You're not gonna go to the table where all the students of color were sitting. So, got my food, went and sat down. It was a very interesting situation because gradually the conversation got quieter and quieter and quieter and, and eventually students left one at a time and I was left to sit there alone. So when you say, was there pushback, of course there was, there was pushback from the time I came to the university and there was pushback the time I retired. Those things don't change. So, I'm sorry.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138No, thank you.
Speaker 5Oh, okay. so when the program first started, we started off looking at, in, at, engineering and science because those were areas where we had very, very low numbers. And then eventually we saw success in my eyes and we were able to also get funding from Aetna for arts and letters business and architecture students. So we had a combination program, ofour Aetna students. So that kind of gives you an overall history of, you know, how we got started, why we got started, and what we found to be most important in terms of, setting up a program like this.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Unbelievable. I mean, just to. Go through what you did, in, you know, personally and coming as the first, not only one of the first females, but to be a black female on campus. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I know some of the assumptions that were made when I started school in 1992. oh, you're a legacy. Oh, you're black. And there were still questions about what did you get on your SAT,
Speaker 3right. Um, those types of things that majority students, no one's asking them what they got on their That's correct.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138And so for you to have the fortitude, it would've been easy to say, you know what, forget it, I'm just gonna go about my business. But to actually dig in and say, I know what I went through and I know what these students need. We, and we, it's our duty if we're going to bring them to Notre Dame to fill in the gaps mm-hmm. Provide programming that they need. Mm-hmm. So. I, I don't know if, any of that is new to you or eyeopening, but, um, I know that you're very grateful for the tireless work that Angie's put into this, but, tell us what, what do you think Notre Dame would've been like for you had you not been part of Balfour? you know, Angie talked about the psychological component to going to a predominantly white institution. certainly then, but even now, we see those challenges and, and a lot of the things that, that Angie's saying happened then, you know, rang true when I was a student. Why are all the black people sitting at the, at the ca, you know, table? Yeah. My daughter, who is a junior at Notre Dame and my son, who's a freshman at Notre Dame are, you know, going through as black students, and they're telling me some of the same things when it comes to dating, when it comes to the cafeteria. So some of those things are just part of being in America, I think. but what would your experience have been like socially, financially, psychologically, especially, you know, a big part of your story, speaking for you is that your first generation college student and first generation us. So there were a lot of different layers to your experience, I imagine.
Speaker 4Yes, correct. Well, it's very, you know, difficult question to answer because it's so layered and I feel like I could spend days, if not weeks unpacking just one of those aspects.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4But what I'll start with saying is I'm very honored to be here and it feels especially meaningful because it's International Women's Month and as we're like celebrating and we're reflecting on Belfor, it's incredible that they we're doing this through the lens and perspectives and the lived experiences. Reflections, incredible trailblazing women. so I'm just honored to be here. Thank you for having me. but to start with, I think without Belfor, if we just look at it through an academic lens all the way up to my high school career, I thought that I was gonna go straight into law school and become an immigration attorney. But when I got to Notre Dame, that all changed academically because of Balfour, uh, because I was exposed to a lot of upperclassmen that had similar interests to me, but that were navigating their postgraduate plans differently. And so without about four, I would've had less clarity on my interest. and I wouldn't have found that I actually do enjoy migration. But I, I find that I don't think I would've found my niche in migration as early if I hadn't exposed myself to the different possibilities of how to tackle migration through a policy lens. Through, um, a research lens, an advocacy lens, and I was able to discern all of that through Balfour. for example, my freshman summer, I had the opportunity to connect my coursework through an, um, immigration seminar through Balfour that then took me into summer real world impact immersion project in Homestead Miami, where we got to mentor children of migrant farm workers. And seeing the realities on the ground and then pairing it with the academic lens that I learned through the Balfour class really helped me cement my passion for helping immigrant children in advocacy through various ways. And so without Balfour, I don't think I would've, you know, had the opportunity to do that. And I think on a more profound level socially, and as we were talking about these different lived experiences, it would've been so hard to find community at a predominantly white institute. Right? Especially me. I. As has been stated, I am an immigrant from Mexico, but specifically like I am the oldest daughter in an immigrant household. And so I've never had an older sibling to look up to. And so I felt like the balfours, they were like my surrogate siblings, my surrogate older brothers and sisters who helped me navigate the college process and beyond. And so I don't think I would've had that same mentality. and less peer support and fewer deeper relationships that I connected with them. Not just academically, but personally, culturally, socially. And I think the biggest point to all of this, because I could go on and on, is before coming to Notre Dame, I introduced myself as my nickname Sammy. Now that I'm like listening to it, I kind of cringe at it. But all of my households and like my childhood friends still call me that with love. and I remember during my Balfour summer, which was virtual, and we can unpack that later.
Speaker 3Oh yeah.
Speaker 4A lot of the students when they introduce themselves, introduce themselves by their name and the way they wanted to pronounce it, and with so much confidence. And so I thought to myself, oh my gosh, this is so cool. Why don't I do that? And so I think that was a big cultural shift for me personally and identity thing, where I went from being called Samami to calling myself by my real name, Ima, and it was all because of the social empowerment that I felt being in, in the Belfort space. So yeah, those are two big elements.
Mentorship and Support
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Sure, sure, sure. What do you think, about I, yes, I can appreciate that about the, the challenges and I can't imagine being, you know, the oldest, that's another layer. in an immigrant Mexican family, because I'm sure in some ways it was very difficult for your parents to let you go. what is this gonna look like for you? Just, and just fears about sending your child off to, you know, to do something you've never done before. And that it's like, all right, we're, we're sending her off. But we can't, we can't advise her. We don't, we don't know what this experience is like. and so all we can do is send her off and, and hope for the best. So I, I applaud your parents, um, for Yes. For their faith in you and Notre Dame.
Speaker 4Yeah, and I mean, it, it took a lot of difficult conversations, but what was helpful is I felt like, and what the original pillar was, is I had group mentorship. I had people that helped me think through how I could have those conversations with my parents. I had the opportunity to study abroad three times, and each of those times I was able to do it because of the financial support. Through Balfour, I was able to study abroad in Morocco where I learned Arabic and I conducted immigration research. I was able to study abroad in Brazil and do a lot of, um, qualitative methods of research that I had no idea had ever existed, especially when it comes to women's empowerment in the lens of immigrant women.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4And then I had the opportunity to study in Washington DC alongside a very trailblazing woman, conquerors woman, Ocasio-Cortez, and all those opportunities were shared by Balfour upperclassmen. And then where I was able to tell my parents, Hey, I'm going to do this, but you don't have to worry because financially I am, I won't ask you for that money either. I have worked enough that I have that money or. That Belfor is able to help me, but I understanding and unpacking, you know, the financial circumstances were where it was difficult because you never, before going to Notre Dame, I can imagine it's quite similar now, is you're not trained to ask for help and you're not trained to know or, or like to be embarrassed. Like you're sort of embarrassed to say, Hey, I want financial support, but how do I do it without sounding like I don't have any money. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4and so I learned a lot about knowing when to ask, but also using my resources and the tools that were available to me because of what I, because of how I showed up and how I listened to others.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Right, right. You know, it's, uh, amazing. Just thinking about your experience and you said you came in and did the summer virtually. And, you know, I think you're probably the only class to, to do that. And the one, a few of the things that I appreciated so much about coming to campus was I knew I learned to navigate campus that summer mm-hmm. Before anyone was there. And being at Notre Dame for the summer, it's much quieter. You feel like it's yours and then, you know, fall comes and there's this hostile takeover of everybody coming for football games and everything else. Mm-hmm. Which can be overwhelming. And I remember when I was advising students, I would say to them, Hey, listen, the first home football game is a week after you arrive. The, the preparation for that is different from having your first football game be away, and then you have a home game. Because, as you know, the complexion of campus changes. Family members may be visiting. There's all this, you know, that's, that's go whirling all around you that a lot of students don't have at different campuses. You know what I mean? University of Chicago doesn't have that. They don't have sports, they don't have that, that kind of vibe. but the thing that I was most grateful for was coming in the summer, meeting people, socializing, debating things. There were plenty of things that my cohort did not agree on, but we found that we loved to come together. We had our, that, that song jump around. That was like our song. And if we were in a dorm basement somewhere, probably party it louder than we were supposed to. Sorry, Angie. if that song came on, I mean, if it was on campus, if it was anywhere that, whenever I hear that song, even to this day, that was, that's like our anthem.
Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138But I'm so grateful that I was able to build, have this built in network and, you know, when I got to campus, it wasn't like I had to have my balfours it, it just made me comfortable enough to kind of, alright, I can spread my wings a little bit, but I know my peoples are here. I know I got Alex Montoya, I know I got like my roommates, former roommates and, you know, that kind of thing. I was gonna see DJ at lunch, I was gonna mm-hmm. That, to me, that security, again, whether you needed it or not, but it was just so, I don't know. Comforting to know that, okay. When I walked to DA. Alex is gonna come walking across the quad, and I can, I can go with him because I, I honestly, I felt like a fish outta water. I felt so unprepared and, just having, having that summer that you didn't have, so I'm cycling through this through my mind that you did this online and wow, what a difference.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, it was, it was very difficult. I think personally it was a thing that was the biggest challenge for our cohort because it changed how we were able to build community early on, as you mentioned, as very fundamental to the Belfor summer experience. and so because of that, it sort of made us more intentional later on about creating those connections in other ways. And so when we did finally get together and we had the opportunities to be together physically in person. we really leaned on each other still, and we found ways to build bonds in those ways, if that makes sense. So for example, I'm, I know I'm like fast forwarding a lot from like freshman year, but because we didn't have that summer program, we were very fortunate and blessed with the tirelessly, with the tirelessly effort of many faculty and staff from Belfort to support our trip to Puerto Rico. And, and this senior trip, we were able to really, really bond in a way where, you know, what we had was each other, where we could just enjoy time away from Notre Dame where we could, be in the sun. It was our senior year. So things were so stressful, and I'll say that the people that were on that trip were people that I had already built quite meaningful relationships. One, uh, quite meaningful relationships with. It was a really good way of thinking, fact like, okay, yes, summer, but we did have special moments like this that we'll never forget and I, we'll always look forward to having. And so, to backtrack in, um, my freshman like fall going into it, when we got to campus, we were each other's first go, go-to people and we built those connections slowly. And then through the sum through like programming that Balfour had, it ha it helped us build community. So I just wanna list a couple of them because there's so many things that have happened with Balfour academically. Obviously there's like new courses, the spring immersion seminar, the full introduction course, um, the service events in our south and community professional development. We had like majors nights, interview, prep workshops, alumni networking weekends. I had the opportunity to go to Atlanta with a lot of my close be for friends. and then we also had community and traditions. Balfour retreats, the annual Christmas parties, the Thanksgiving, all of the holidays where you had opportunities to come together with these balfours.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah.
Speaker 4Um, and I think the most meaningful part of all of this was we had our own space and we made it into like a cultural thing for us. So the study lounge, which has now evolved so much, now they have, what do they have, like a special room with, what are those, those chairs called? They're like,
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138the beanbags.
Speaker 4Yes. They have a beanbag room now. Yeah. And they have a kitchen with like, uh, snacks and drinks. And so, you know, it's really evolved. But what I'm saying is a lot of those intentional ways that the program director and the broader community and students, the ways that they were able to create those events helped us create more meaningful relationships beyond the summer.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Well, and that's that evolution. You know, we're talking past, present, future. Um, though you all really what it's become, and again, hats off to Dr. Ro because Yeah. You know, when, when I did the program, we did not earn credit. and so, you know, there was a fight to, to say, Hey, these students are spending a lot of time on campus in the summer. They're coming back and doing follow ups. The programming that you all have after you come to campus and throughout your four years, four years, that's really changed as well. that that wasn't happening. And then to have a physical space that is dedicated to Balfour Scholars is absolutely, it's so exciting. It's very well deserved. and then it just makes our scholars feel that much more appreciated and special.
Speaker 5Yes.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5Christie, how about you? tell us a little bit about your background when you came to the university. what were some of the things that you thought about, how was it that you ended up here and, why is it that you did decide to stay and come back to ba?
Coping and Confidence
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Okay. so I'm from a small farming community in New Jersey. Um, I know people think of New Jersey as being this robust, you know, you fly into Newark and it's, it's crazy and you're right by the city. I, the reason why New Jersey is a garden state is because of where I grew up. And so I literally was flying to by farms. I lived in the woods on six acres and that was my playground. And so my, my town, the education system was not very good, but I was raised by a single mom. My dad was certainly in my life, but he was not in my every day. And my mother was the first to finish high school on her side of the family. My mother's African American, my dad's Irish, and she grew up with no running water, no electricity. And so I, I grew up with feeling that feeling, my great-great-grandfather who lived on our property, who was a sharecropper at one point. That is, that was my, the ancestral history that I kind of grew up with. And then the white side of my family, I didn't really know, but my dad had gone to Notre Dame. He actually graduated before. So I had heard about this place, but it was almost difficult to me like that I, I would never reach, No one really left the, the tri-state area. It was a big deal if, if you went to school outside of, of the state, honestly. and so I never really thought that I would get in, but my brother had gotten in before me. He was actually a senior when I was a freshman, and I remember, and I thought my brother was really bright and I remember him struggling and then me getting there and feeling, you know, like a fish outta water. And so I sort of had this almost duality that I had experienced growing up as a biracial person. On one hand I had this con weird connection to Notre Dame, but I didn't really live it through my dad. but then was, you know, brought up, like I said, in a household with, with very meager beginning. so. I definitely felt like my experience, just coming with parents who grew up together. I remember my roommate was sort of surprised when she learned that my parents, while they, my mom dropped me off, that my parents weren't, weren't married. and I remember kind of internalizing that like, oh, here I go again. I have to explain my story kind of thing. but by the grace of God, I stayed at Notre Dame. I thought about transferring. I'll be honest, I thought after my freshman year I was gonna leave and I remember talking to my dad and he said, just give it a year and if at the end of the year you wanna go back, I thought I wanted to be a physical therapist, so, but I, looking back. I think a lot of it was excuses. I think there was a lot of self handicapping that I did. because I thought, well, if I don't try, I won't know that I failed. Right? It's just because I didn't try. but I just remember sitting in classes and feeling like every day, every day I sat in class freshman year and I thought I shouldn't be here. And all I wanted to do was crawl in the corner. But then I, I learned because I came from a very street savvy mother, um, that okay, if I'm gonna be here, I have got to figure out ways, coping mechanisms. which I've later learned having been a counselor and major in psychology and social work and everything, but I thought, if I'm gonna be in this classroom, don't wait for the professor to call on you and not have the answer. Make sure that you are raising your hand and you're contributing, because if you've said something, well then they're gonna move on to the next person and then they're not asking you something. I mean, just things like that. These like kind of games that I would play just to, to get through the class, and not feel like a fraud. think that was the other thing too. We, um, we kind of, again, part of ourselves handicapping and, feeling like you don't belong. You're like, wait, am I, am I really only here because my dad went here? Am I really only here because they needed some black females? and but you, this gets in your head. So that's why Balfour was also important, because I was around people who had, unconventional stories and black and brown people who were like, you know what? We don't necessarily know why we're here, but we're here and Notre Dame's gonna know we're here and we're gonna leave our mark. So, you know, without spending those four weeks, which I did reluctantly, I didn't wanna leave my high school friends so early and take a month out of my summer and not be able to work and make money, and not hang out with my boyfriend or whatever was going on at the time. It was a really big, decision to come for those four weeks. but again, just trying to figure out, all right, how am I not gonna shrink in this moment? I remember Angie called me should, we actually had dorm phones. And Angie would call and call and call and try and have me come in for an appointment. And I remember dodging her at times because I just felt like I, I don't even wanna face her. I, I wasn't doing as well as I wanted to do in school. And, you know, you just wanna kind of crawl into a hole and somehow something just clicked sophomore year and things just completely changed for me. but freshman year was definitely a, it was eyeopening.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, very, I mean, there's a lot of things that I can resonate with, especially the freshman year. Difficulty the transition. Yeah. Of high school, because in high school, I mean, things seem to come a little bit easier. Like, you go to class, you do the homework, you're fine. Right. And, you know, but the transition to college where you, you were graded more, you were graded on more than just, you know, the assignments you were turning in and you were graded on participating, you were graded on the quality of the, you know, the deliverables. And for me, I was quite, I was a very quiet student. Mm. So I struggled with learning how to, participate in class and speak up. and I was, I was quite in my shell, but I think the first year seminar that we had as Balfours really helped because I was in an element where a lot of my friends and a lot of my course mates had similar experiences to me, looks like me. And I felt comfortable in that setting. So once I left that setting, freshman fall semester, I was like, wow, okay. If I was this vocal, this confident. And this encouraged to speak up, I'm gonna do the same in these other courses. Right. But it did take some pushing, and that's one thing I really appreciate about the program is the director and a lot of the older upperclassmen pushed me. They in on me. They helped me, they pulled me up with them. And I think that's a, that's a core value that we've seen since Angie's time, and it's something that's special is it's not just individual mentorship, it's group mentorship, it's, it's intergenerational mentorship. It's alumni mentorship. And, and I'm very grateful for that structure.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah. Yeah. You know, Angie, just because you have such a more broad perspective in terms of, affirmative action and DEI and just. Again, you, you were rattling off different civil rights events and things that you've witnessed over the years. and we know that there's, there's been a lot of attacks on, you know, admissions policies, DEI, we recently saw that there was someone who was directing DEI, who couldn't even define it for our government. And, um, you know, yet this person was making major decisions about funding, et cetera. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I, I think anytime there's a program like this, whether it was in 1986 or 2026, people can easily look at it and say, well, who's that for? And who does it exclude and why not me? And why do we still need to do this? there's no need for programs like this where everyone's on an equal footing, but, and I, I get worried about. for, you know, I've seen it in admissions and, and how, we can't talk about race when we're talking about admissions and things like that. Things that we, we certainly talked about and I appreciate. Mm-hmm. And we were like, oh, first generation Latina and to speak Spanish. That that's gonna add something to our community. Those conversations can't necessarily be had now. so I say all that to say, what, how do we keep the next 40 years, in place and do you think we will outgrow a Balfour or will there always be a need for something like, like Belfor?
Speaker 5Well, let me say that my hope is that one day we would not need a Balfour. But to me that's a dream. And in my lifetime I doubt that will ever happen, because our culture and our society has never dealt with the issues that people face when they are deemed as different.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 5So as long as that is present in our culture, and as long as we aren't willing to sit down and talk about it, then we're always going to face these issues. So the fact that you have someone who can't define it?
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5the fact that you have people who are continuously, degrading or. Ostracizing, those who feel strongly that these types of programs are needed, we will struggle.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5My dream is that the university, along with the, the, um, directors of Balfour will continue to fight on a continuous basis, but in order to do that, you have to have representation.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 5So it's very important that when these decisions are made in these boardrooms and these classrooms and these executive suites, that we have representation there that you can share, whether from experience or from understanding through communication. That these types of programs are so important and will continue to be, whether we're talking about women, whether we're talking about racial issues. Yeah. Whether we're talking about, people with physical disabilities. I mean, the, it goes on and on and on whenever you're an other.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Right.
Speaker 5You need representation. And that's why a program like Balfour is important. It's needed and I hope it continues. Yeah.
Alumni Give Back
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138em, is there anything you wanna add? I don't wanna cut you off if
Speaker 4No, I, I think everything that was raised was very important. I think to add the cherry on top to that is look to the alumni and all the accomplishments that they've had, and all the successes they've had because of the bour experience, Now, myself and alumni, I credit almost the majority of my success because of the support of Balfour. Like if there's one thing that I took from all of Notre Dame, it's Balfour. In the first part, in the first program that I will ever donate to or support will be Balfour, because Balfour was my one, Balfour Belfor, Notre Dame. And I credit so much of that be to them. And so I, I think that the administration and the university and everyone involved in the process of determining the future of Belfor should look to the alumni and should look to the successes and the, the legacies that we've all left behind as a result of a woman who decided that things needed to change.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah, no, and that's a really good point about, you know, just giving back because we, we all benefited from Balfour. And so, you know, there are plenty of. folks who reach out during the day of giving or whatever the case may be. hey, do you wanna give to the College of Arts and Letters? Do you wanna give to this or Bengal belt, or whatever it is. And, and that's all great.
Speaker 2Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138But I think we need to be thoughtful, and Angie and I have seen this over the years too. You know, it's like anything else. Money talks. And so who's, who's bringing in, the cash flow and what, what programs on campus or affinity groups are the most robust? Who's giving if, if we put our money behind something like Balfour or the Frazier Thompson Scholarship Fund mm-hmm. Or, you know, those types of things. Mm-hmm. It's gonna show the importance of these programs. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Again, nobody, if we put up the money that talks way more than, that's true. Even us being on this today. Yes. How can we support the program? And if you, you know. Get online and mm-hmm. Look at our Instagram page, the Belfor, Hesberg scholars, I'm sure all of you can find it. Mm-hmm. And, and look at what our students are doing.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138There are more imas out there. Right. Absolutely. Who are doing amazing things we wanna continue to support and, um, and we know it's the little things too that, that Dr. Lucero deals with that we don't hear about. Mm-hmm. Yes. We know that you went abroad three times and we can profile that on, on a webpage or on Instagram, and that's great. But it's the things when kiddos come to you and say, I'm from Texas and I don't have the money to get a winter jacket, or, I, I need to get home because someone passed away, and I'm not able to do that.
Speaker 5Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Dr. Luo can do those things, but again, it all, it, it takes money. It takes money. It takes money to stock the kitchen and the, the beanbag room with the snacks in it. Yes,
Speaker 5that's right. And also it takes community and our community.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah.
Speaker 5Can't just be us. from the very beginning we were, I feel that I can say we were very fortunate. We had a father, Ted Hesberg, who saw the importance. We had an Alt Hoffman who saw the importance. You had people in the development office who thought it was important. And so bringing people into the camp and saying that this is something that I find important, and that's what I meant when I said having representation during the time when these decisions are being made. Those things are very important because without that, Bour would not have been here today.
Speaker 3No.
Speaker 5So, yes, we do need. All of the legacies that, Balfour has produced. And I am just so grateful to all of the directors. Yeah. All of the students, all of the alumni who have today made Balfour what it is.
Speaker 3That's right.
Speaker 5But I also from the past know that there are people out there that are willing to help, assist and promote.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah.
Speaker 5If you give them a chance.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138That's right.
Speaker 3Yeah.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138And you know, Angie, I'm, I'm sure you would say this too, but you know, for this program to have persisted, not, you know, email t then handed off to Dean Coleman and Yes,
Speaker 5yes. You
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138know, whenever, whenever a new dean comes in
Speaker 5That's right.
Advice for Students
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Things could change and, but the program persisted because she believed we're doing.
Speaker 5Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Yeah.
Speaker 5Absolutely.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138well, before we wrap up, I just wanna ask if, you know, there's anything, any suggestions you have words of wisdom, um, I'm sure that there are gonna be current Balfour students who are listening to this, or some recent grad. If there's anything that, you know, when you got out, any suggestions that you have for the, the current students or, or anything for Dr. Ludo that you would like to see incorporated in the program.
Speaker 4Yeah, so I think when I am speaking to the current L four students, I wanna say two things. Number one is to be kind to yourself, but at the same time, be unapologetically yourself because yes, you are in a predominantly white institute, but you are worthy of being there. And so that means you have to show up and you need to be bold and you need to ask questions and you need to be. On your own footing. But that means you also need to be protecting your pace. And I think Balfour is a safe space for you to be able to do that. And so really tap into that angle, right? Tap into the community that pours into you. and I would say as well, this is both for the program director and for the students, is really leaning into young career professionals thinking about alumni. Um, because these are individuals like myself who are eager to support and give back in ways. And we've been there, done that quite recently, that I think there can be a lot of mentorship and a lot of, um, support that we can give one another. And so tapping into more of that and also keeping it student focused, student forward and student led and the initiatives that we do and the events and the programming is gonna be so fundamental to the continued success of the program. And so those are the big things that I would say. And lastly, build together. Regardless of what ends up happening. I think we all know that when we come together and we hold each other accountable, we'll win.
Speaker 3Yeah.
Speaker 4And the last thing I just have is I have a question for the both of you, especially,'cause this is the first podcast episode and we come from different decades of participation in Notre Dame and Balfour is, and something I think about a lot recently now is in what ways has Balfour continued to shape your life beyond Notre Dame, and how has this evolved over time? And lastly, like what advice would you give to those of us still learning how to carry that forward?
Speaker 5Wow. Hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138I know. Wow. they might need to tack on more time. Angie, do you wanna go first?
Speaker 5No, I'm gonna let you go first. You've been so gracious leading us.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Okay. Um, I think. You know, there's, there you were talking about, what did I take from bout for even today? I think there are some moments that are so salient to your identity that, you know, and I, I feel like I've lost brain cells over time and I can't tell you what I ate yesterday, but there are certain things like being part of Balfour and that first year at Notre Dame that will stick with me for the rest of my life. I, like I said, as, as difficult as it was to come and participate because I certainly was homesick and all the things, I was able to prove something to myself that, okay, you can do hard things and you can work through discomfort. Because what I found was the times that I ran away from things that, that really wasn't necess, that wasn't building character, it wasn't helping me get over the next hurdle, but at some point I decided stop the self handicapping and attack. And you have people who are in your corner and just like I would tell the balfours, when we were prepping them to do public speaking or something like that, and they, they'd say, oh, I'm so nervous. And I'm like, no, I get it. I hate public speaking. But here's what you have to remember. Everybody in that room who's listening to you, once you to do well, they're rooting for you because nobody wants to listen to a boring speaker who says, every two seconds. And so use this more as a positive that these people are building you up. It really. And you know, there was, there was one, I try not to live with regrets, but there was one decision that I made that has stuck with me that I thought, you failed there next time. You gotta face it. You gotta face your fear. And that was, I took myself outta Father Malloy's seminar.
Speaker 5Oh yes, I remember that.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Angie put me in that course and she did that for a reason, unbeknownst to me because I didn't even believe in myself. Mm-hmm. She me in there and I thought, there's no way that I could face this. I feel like a fraud being here. And I took myself out and like I said, I try not to live with regrets, but that's definitely was the impetus for me moving forward to be like, you know what, girl, you messed that one up. Don't do it again.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138When you're given an opportunity or someone sees something in you or you, you know, a door is open, you damn sure better take the opportunity.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138And I, you know, the other thing too, and this is what I, I tell my kids all the time is, and you, you alluded to this, I don't ever try to be somebody else. You know, you cannot be your authentic self. the only thing you can do is be the best version of you because that other person has already been done. So do stay in your lane. Like you said, be bold. Find the people who are gonna build you up, who you can bring into your camp, because there will be plenty of people trying to invade and take you off your game. but just, just be you. Be true to you. Study the things that make. That you are interested in. There were plenty of folks who said to me, why the hell are you a psychology major? Whatcha gonna do with that? You know, it wasn't, it wasn't the cool program. It wasn't like mm-hmm. Highly regarded like engineers. Mm-hmm. It wasn't a triple major. It wasn't this. Mm-hmm. It was just psych. But you know what, I enjoyed psych, I loved my program.
Speaker 3Mm-hmm.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138so it's, but I think a lot of that comes with time and wisdom. You know, that's, again, I didn't feel this way my first year. I had to get there, so.
Speaker 5Well, what I will say is, I've appreciated listening to both of you today. it's been eye-opening. You've brought up things that I hadn't thought about. unfortunately I was not a student here during your time, so the struggles that you have gone through are very different, but similar than the struggles that I went with, went through. but what I will say is that my parents always said, you know, when you're looking at a situation, it's always easy to come up with, oh, these list all the problems. This is a problem, that's a problem. All those, it's much harder to come up with solutions and always remembering that there isn't just one. There are many solutions to the same problem.
Speaker 3Yeah,
Closing and Next Steps
Speaker 5and that's something that I would recommend for all the students out there, for any of you who are looking at situations, whether it's in education, whether it's in your career, or whether it's in your family. Just understanding that there are different perspectives. Also understanding and giving people grace to grow. All of these things are important and as Balfour's, that's one of the things that I would see over the four years in students where they learn to appreciate the differences that people brought to the table. And I hope that they were able to take away and to grow through communication because that is how I think Balfours and really our culture is going to grow and change through talking to each other, benefiting from each other's stories. Being willing and bold enough to speak up and to be yourself. That's what both of you mentioned. Be who you are and bringing it to the table so that people will listen, understand, and take away, particularly those who are willing to do so.
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138Ladies, I wish we had more time. This has been, so cathartic in a lot of ways and, I, I keep learning something. I don't know how I keep learning something, Angie, every time I get on about the, I, I mean, this has been truly a treat and I hope that, um. I hope that I see you at some of the programming that's coming up. I would like to point out, certainly for, for more information about these squad casts, like I said, this is the first one. We will be hosting that one each month until the end of the school year. and that those can be found on ThinkND edu and then would invite you to go to the Instagram page, like I said, Balfour Hesberg Scholars, where you'll see more about our students and programming. And then also the Balfour website because there, there are a lot of things that are coming down the pike, including in addition to the podcast, but there's going to be a gala in the fall and reunion game, which I believe is the first home game. But all that information will be on the, on the website. So get your fancy dresses ready and all fours are gonna be stepping out. And this is, this is really exciting. And again, thank you to Dr. Lucero for including us and all the work of the committee. Um, we know that there's a lot of heavy lifting going on behind the scenes and, and look forward to seeing the, the rest of the program to celebrate, really an incredible program. Uh, one that I imagine, many, many schools would be envious of if they really knew what we were doing, um mm-hmm. At Notre Dame. So. Mm-hmm. Thank you ladies and um, em, I will definitely be in touch with you, my friend. Um, try and get you back to be a double doer.
Speaker 3Thank you. I appreciate that. Bye. It's
angie-chamblee_4_03-18-2026_143138good Bell. Thank you. Take
Speaker 3care. Thank you.