Revolutions of Hope, Part 9: Hope on the Ground

Episode Topic: Hope on the Ground 

In the crucible of total war, how does a nation protect its soul? Join leading scholars as they deconstruct Ukraine’s “pedagogy of freedom.” From “immunizing” students against disinformation to the “optimal hope” of civil society, discover how active academic solidarity and symbolic recognition forge a resilient mental shield for the future. 

Featured Speakers:

• A. Austin Garey, Kennan Institute
• Sarah D. Phillips, Indiana University Bloomington
• Sarah Wilson Sokhey, University of Colorado Boulder
• Kristina Šliavaitė, Vilnius University

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/f5fc83.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Revolutions of Hope. 

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Transcript

Speaker 10 0:06

Yeah. Hello. And, um, good afternoon to, uh, everybody. my name is Volodymyr Turchynovsky. I'm dean of the Faculty of Social Sciences at the Ukrainian Catholic University, and I have a privilege, and honor to moderate this, uh, panel. Thank you so much for joining us for this conversation and discussion. And it's, um, uh, it's my pleasure also to introduce my, uh, my colleagues, uh, here who are going to have their presentations. Amy Austin, Cary, and, um, Sarah Phillips, Sarah Wilson, Sakhi, and, and Kristina, uh, Šliavaite. Um, I apologize for perhaps not correctly pronouncing your, um, your last names. Uh, we are going to go according to the, to the program. and, uh, our, um, our panelists, they have, um, they have, uh, about, twelve minutes, uh, for their, for their presentations. I would kindly ask you to, um, note your questions. After we hear from all of them, we'll be able to take your questions and, um, and provide, um, uh, responses and, and comments. So with this, it's my, uh, it's my pleasure to, um, to invite, uh, um, profe-- to invite, Amy Austin Cary, uh, who is an anthropologist, uh, working, at the, Kennan Institute. And, um, Amy is, uh, specialized in post-Soviet institutions in Russia and Ukraine. she also directs, uh, Education Corps Ukraine, connecting Ukrainian schools, uh, with EFL teaching resources. Uh, her res- her research on semiotics and cultural production appears in various journals, and, um, her forthcoming book, Leaks of Laughter: War, Comedy, and the Soviet Legacy, examines how a Soviet-era youth activity evolved amid national collapse and war, uncovering the entitlement of humor and oppression in the cultural context of Russia's war on Ukraine. And it's my pleasure, Amy, to invite you. The floor is yours.

Speaker 2 2:32

One of the first statements from the National Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of Ukraine after the full-scale invasion in twenty twenty-two reads:"Resistance is not just military resistance. Every citizen must fight provocations and panic, prevent the escalation of tensions, refute misinformation, and maintain clarity of thinking." A patriot is someone who invests in the development of the country and preserves its defense capabilities. For representatives of the pedagogical sciences, this means maintaining the national identity and unity of the nation at the level of consciousness of every citizen. It was a call to arms, with teachers serving on the front lines, protecting and preparing the next generation of Ukrainians. Much in Ukrainian education has changed since twenty twenty-two. Keeping children safe is a top priority, which means that education in many places has, has moved online. Psychological res-- support for students, for parents, and for teachers themselves has also become central to educational planning. And the content of curriculum has changed as well. So curricula for history, for civics, for literature, and for foreign lage-la-- foreign languages has changed after the full-scale invasion. But there's much that hasn't changed as well. A lot of the concerns in the pedagogical literature before twenty twenty-two remain after twenty twenty-two, now overshadowed and complicated by war. Here, I analyze publications by Ukrainian researchers in the educational sciences, focusing on their research about and recommendations for primary and secondary schools. This analysis reveals how Ukrainian educational leaders are orienting towards the future. There's much that's triage in publications since the full-scale invasion, but there's also a great deal of discussion about how to train the next generation of Ukrainians. Ukrainians equipped with value systems needed to build an independent nation and whose education prepares them for EU integration. To that end, some Ukrainian scholars have recently drawn on the writings of thinkers like Hryhorii Skovoroda, a nineteenth-century Ukrainian philosopher and teacher, to advocate for a pedagogy of freedom that resonates with wider Ukrainian calls for independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity. Alla Rostrygina writes, for instance,"The major prerequisite for the inner emancipation of an individual is external freedom." So Ukrainian pedago-pedagogical writers are explicitly linking creating a free Ukraine where free students can develop to the maximum their individual capacities and abilities to the project of creating free individual Ukrainian selves who are developed to their maximum capacity and who will then maintain a free Ukraine. This is being linked and linked methodologically as well. So my data come from a six-year period looking at three Ukrainian journals that are aimed at teachers, both in terms of methodological recommendations and overall sort of pedagogical approaches. The sample for content analysis was all over a thousand articles in these three journals, but I extracted out just fifty-three articles for discourse analysis, looking specifically at the post twenty twenty-two era and three themes in particular. So delivery of education during wartime Values edu- education, and integration with European standards. So content analysis provides a really broad overview of the top themes in the three years before the full-scale invasion, what Ukrainian researchers were, were talking about and writing about, what recommendations they were giving for teachers. And so we can see that war is a concern, about 6% of articles in this period, um, because teachers were writing about national identity education, delivery of education, and the Donbas, and distance learning is there as well because of COVID. All of those themes emerge as continuing top concerns after 2022, but war has gone from six t- 6% to 50%. One of the reasons this is the case is because each one of those categories is, is now coupled with war, so it's no longer, development. Development here mean- meaning vyhovannya. It's no longer ideal child development, it's child development in a time of war, or it's national identity education in a time of war. looking at some of these categories individually, you can also break out how more specifically foci have changed in the category of vyhovannya or values education. So before 2022, this category of upbringing in an idealized sense, how can we create the, the best self-actualized children, future citizens, is 17 out of 22 articles, and that green category after 2022 disappears. So values education is still really important, um, in this 11 articles out of the sample 53. but it gets instrumentalized because Ukrainians are facing an instrumental threat. So it's no longer values education in a vacuum, it is values education because teaching Ukrainian values of self-actualization and orientation towards justice will help immunize them against Russian information warfare. So this is moral training for the children and to help build the nation. looking now at the practical recommendations for teaching in wartime, these fall into three main categories: delivery of education, providing psychological support, and keeping teachers and students safe. So unpres- unsurprisingly, given the wartime conditions, a lot of the articles talk about how practically to shift to teaching online. And you might think, well, in Odesa, they were already teaching online. They never stopped teaching online because of COVID. But war presented additional complications that COVID did not So managing air raid interruptions, curfew interruptions, accommodating students who had evacuated within Ukraine, which meant they weren't at home, they didn't necessarily have computers, they didn't necessarily have internet access, and accommodating students and teachers who had evacuated to countries outside Ukraine. And those students had all of the same problems and also might be in a different time zone. So this meant that in contrast to COVID, recommendations were shifted to, more asynchronous learning. Kind of an interesting corollary was that a couple recommendations from the academy in the past three years have been if you are teaching in person, instead of teaching math, instead of t- sitting students down and teaching them content, instead help them develop social skills. So let students play, let students socialize with each other. The time that they're together in class isn't necessarily time that they sit in desks. And this, this varies by region, but that was one recommendation that came out from the academy. Overall, the teaching advice was extremely detailed, extremely practical, both within the articles themselves and sometimes just lists of links to other kinds of resources or very detailed case studies. This, for example, is an organiz- organizational chart that was published in an article that detailed how to create an online school-wide radio with this is the person that did this role, and this is the person that did this ro- role. Practical advice so that teachers who are the audience for this could replicate exactly what other teachers were doing. Um, psychological advice, also extremely practical, extremely specific. So don't tell a child who has just lost a parent,"Chin up," but to acknowledge their loss and say,"This should never have happened to you." again, just extremely sort of useful advice within the articles and then, references to resources outside the articles for providing psychological support for children who had been through unspeakable tragedy. keeping students and teachers safe was also a major priority, especially in articles coming out in 2022 to help teachers prepare for threats they could be facing that maybe they wouldn't face. But strategies that have been used in other areas of the world, for example, communities having chaperones to keep children safe on their way to and from classes, or, or prac- or some of the practicalities of moving a classroom from a school to another building because, either because of shelling or other reasons, the school building was, was unusable. So values education, as I mentioned, also changed. So teaching of values was a concern before the war or before the full-scale invasion and remains a concern. But, In a, in an environment of instrumental threat, the idea of Ukrainian values in particular has really come to the forefront. So although the authors of articles that advocate teaching Ukrainian morality or cr- or teaching Ukrainian national values, they differ a little bit on what they consider Ukrainian values to be. but there are some commonalities, and they include things like, orientation towards democracy or, in this example, um, orientation towards goodness, law, and justice. And the idea here too is that if you teach children these values, it provides a defense for them against Russian informational influences and Russian violence. so this is framed in the literature now about values, not just because it's good to, uh, orient towards goodness, but actually it's, it's essential to the nation. So, Kateryna Zh- Zhurbá, for example, she says,"A nation in which spiritual values are leveled is doomed to the loss of statehood, and it's only a matter of time." So a subset of all of that is, is teaching values as kind of immunization against Russian information warfare, and there was even a series of classes that was developed and taught called Mental Shield exactly to that end. So this is-- You can see these are the Russians, right, and how they affect Ukrainian youth. European integration. One of the most surprising things about the, the issue of European integration and reforms in Ukraine, to orient towards European frameworks are that there's very little change in the three years before the full-scale invasion and three years after the full-scale invasion. So the articles that are written about this right now hardly mention the war. What they say is,"This is the state of education reform in Ukraine. This is the benchmark. This is what we need to, to, to do to get there." And that doesn't mean that reform hasn't been stalled by the full-scale invasion because the entire educational process has been stalled. But to me, it's very encouraging that, the head of the, uh, of pedagogical sciences in Ukraine is saying,"Look, we're looking forward. This is what we're doing. We're moving towards Europe. We're gonna keep going."

Speaker 4 13:40

Oops.

Speaker 2 13:52

All right. Well, I've lost the last page of my presentation. I'm sorry about that. but I, I think one thing that we just really need to take away from this is the idea of the pedagogy of freedom that Ukrainian educators and pedagogical theorists are really stressing Because when you're orienting towards a pedagogy of freedom, you're also orienting towards a pedagogy of hope. And although we should never stop praying for Ukraine, we should remember as, as was mentioned yesterday, that the foundation of hope is also action. And as Ukrainian educators are taking action every single day to protect physically their students and to protect the future of the nation, we should think about the gifts of hope that we can give to one another. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 10 14:43

thank you very much. do you, do you also have presentations? So we can kind of, we can stay with the people then in this case. Well, thank you. Um, thank you very much for your, for your excellent presentation. Um, I do kind of recognize many things, uh, which you, which you mentioned, and I always, say that Ukraine is not just a, a huge battlefield, but it's also a, a large open air lab, if I can put this way. So this kind of research and studies which you, which you do are, are, are fascinating and I, I believe to be very, very important. And we're kinda very eager to hear, uh, three more, uh, cases which are, connected with, uh, Ukraine and Ukrainian situation. it's, um, uh, it's my, it's my pleasure to, um, to invite, Professor Sarah, Phillips. Sarah Phillips, uh, specializes in medical anthropology, disability studies, and gender studies with a focus on Ukraine and Russia. Dr. Phillips is, uh, the author of Disability and Mobile Citizenship in post-socialist Ukraine and Women's Social Activism in the New Ukraine. Her research, supported by grants from the NSF and IREX, has advanced Slavic and East European studies. She also served as director of Indiana University's Russian and East European Institute, and the floor is yours. I welcome you.

Speaker 5 16:11

I'll just make a quick correction if I may to my bio, which I sent in, so it's my fault. I no longer do research in

Speaker 6 16:18

Russia. I

Speaker 5 16:22

would like to share copies of this with the audience. Just, you can just look through if it's interesting, pass it on,'cause a lot of what I'm talking about is coming from this booklet. So my task today is to tell you about, what I think is a, quite a unique program that we developed at Indiana University to support our colleagues, uh, in Ukraine who, for professional, uh, personal Or legal reasons, after Russia's full-scale invasion, were not able to leave Ukraine or did not want to leave Ukraine. And, we felt very strongly that we as, as faculty, as students, as administrators who care about Ukraine, who have spent a lot of time in Ukraine, we really wanted to show academic solidarity to our colleagues. And so pretty quickly, some, great minds came together and sort of brainstormed what, what such a program might look like. I know that now non-residential programs for Ukrainian scholars and other scholars at risk, have become much more commonplace. Uh, at the time, we were really putting something new together. There were a few other programs, of course, that we took inspiration from, but I think there are some really important elements that are manifest in the program that we've been running for the last three years. And I would love to think together with all of you about how this might become a sustainable, flexible model of academic solidarity to support scholarship, to support teaching, and to support universities and, um, their faculty in times of turmoil like we see in Ukraine today. So I wanna just point out that, um, a, I think a unique feature and a very important feature of the program is that it was conceived in, tandem, in partnership with colleagues on the ground in Ukraine. And in fact, one of the masterminds is right here. My colleague, Olga Filipova, was very helpful in sharing what were the real-time needs of Ukrainian scholars who, were still in Ukraine, wanted to continue their research, and, um, needed some support to do so. I have to also shout out to my wonderful colleague from Indiana University, Svitlana Melnyk, who's over here, um, who from the very, very beginning has been an integral part of the, uh, organizing team for this program. We wanted a program that would be flexible, adaptable, and that would give scholars access. You think I need the mic? Oh, you want me to have it for that? I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 19:23

It's all right.

Speaker 5 19:24

Thank you. Sorry about that. Okay. Um, and we, we, we devised some selection criteria that maybe were a little bit outside the box because we really did want to support scholars who perhaps had not had a lot of exposure and access to programs such as this And so we actually didn't make knowledge of the English language, a major criteria for participation in the program, and that means that our entire program is bilingual. So I can't say that everything we do is in Ukrainian and English, but definitely eighty-five percent of what we do is in both languages. we also... Another innovation that we wanted to introduce was a way to sustain partnerships with scholars who became involved in the program with faculty and students at the, quote-unquote,"host university," which originally was Indiana University. And so part of the selection criteria was how, how closely do the scholars' interests line up with the expertise at our university, and do we feel like we have resources that will really benefit them at this stage in their career? So we didn't prioritize, you know, early career scholars, later career scholars, mid-career scholars. It really was a very individual approach, and looking at will this fellowship, will this, access to university l- uh, resources benefit the scholar at this point in their career? These were the initial logistics. basically went on hands and knees to, uh, ask the, uh, IU provost to give us some funds. But then what we did was we leveraged those funds to get matching, input from various departments and units around the u- the, uh, the university, and even individual faculty members. And so faculty members said,"Yes, absolutely. I have some research money. Let me repurpose it and support a scholar that way from Ukraine." So I think that was really important, was to get that buy-in from all across the university, and we nearly doubled that one hundred thousand dollar commitment. so that was another unique, and I think very important part of it. So talking about the program features, this is basically what the non, uh, residential fellows can expect. Five thousand dollar stipend might not seem like much, but it, it, it goes a good ways in Ukraine. It's, it's not, it's not nothing. But more important to all of the scholars in the program that have come through the three rounds that we've had so far, has definitely been that access to library resources. The access to the electronic resources, the databases, the peer-reviewed journals, you know, the PDFs, the e-books of the university library, has really allowed them to infuse their scholarship with new information You know, sort of state-of-the-art, uh, research and, and theory. And everyone has really said that the money's great, keep it coming, but, but the access to the, to the e-resources is really where it's at, and that's what's really helpful. I underscore that because I know a lot of you are at universities. You might be at universities where the administrators aren't able to, you know, fork out some, some money for stipends for non-residential scholars. But frankly, providing access to e-resources of libraries, maybe I don't understand this, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost anything. So in other words, it's a way to support our colleagues in Ukraine that is very important, that is very cost-effective. we try to create a sense of community amongst the scholars, and, one way that we do that is by having online research seminars where, where each scholar presents their research, gets feedback. And again, the participants have told us that's one of the most beneficial things, is that they get to meet other scholars virtually from the Ukrainian Academy. And it's very interdisciplinary. And so introducing interdisciplinary approaches, learning from one another across those disciplinary bound-- uh, boundaries has been terrific. As well as professionalization workshops. So we've had journal editors come and talk in Ukrainian about how to get published in peer-reviewed, journals. How to craft a grant proposal, that's one that's on the books, coming up soon for, for our scholars this year. This is just an example of what those monthly research seminars look like. We just had these, uh, this past week, so I just wanted to give you an example of what they look like and, and, and why the big, the academic, the Big Ten academic alliance is on here, I'll tell you in just a moment, um, because that's a big part of this story. So looking sort of back to twenty twenty-one, and that is what... I'm sorry, twenty twenty-two, that is the, the round, the cohort that is featured in that, uh, booklet that I passed around. These are some other features that the program has, um, has had every year for the, for the last three rounds. I won't go to the program website now, but it has very detailed biographies of all of the participating scholars with all of their contact information. So, you know, their Academia page, their LinkedIn page, their email, all of that, so that folks can see, you know, who's participating, perhaps reach out to them, ask them to give a talk, you know, virtually, and, and, and things like that These were the, the, the sort of, um, details of that first cohort in twenty twenty-two, twenty-three. We were able to fund thirty-five scholars. Again, keep in mind we got funding from the provost for twenty, but by getting buy-in from, from partner units, we upped that to twenty-- to thirty-five. They were from twenty-five institutions around Ukraine, fourteen different academic disciplines, and they hailed from twelve Ukrainian cities. Then we had another round of, uh, competition in twenty twenty-three, twenty-twenty-four. Again, seed money provided by the provost, and, we were able again to almost double his commitment and get that up to, uh, sponsor thirty-four fellows. We also were able to, provide scholars from the previous round, from the first round, round with a very small stipend, and of course, continue to involve them in all the program activities. And they, in fact, became mentors for this new cohort of scholars. And so that's how the program has kind of grown in that way. These are some examples of the accomplishments of some of the scholars in the program. I happen to be the faculty member who paired with these three wonderful scholars from Kyiv. We share lots of interests in disability studies, in, in education, and, um, this is-- you can just read this quote and sort of their, their profiles. This is straight out of that, that booklet. But, you know, you can read the, the quote from them about, uh, how it benefited them, not only in their academic lives, but also in their lives as activists. They don't say that, but as mothers right? and people who are, you know, staying in Kyiv during the war and, um, and, and doing the good work on lots and lots of different fronts. another example of, some very active scholars in the program, Nadiya Honcharenko, a, a, a historian from Kyiv. She had already worked very closely with a faculty member at Indiana, Hiroaki Kurimiya, who had retired but was very happy to partner with her in this program and be her, you know, partner/mentor. this is Dima Zayats, uh, from Kharkiv, from Karazin. Uh, I put this up here because I actually have known Dima since nineteen ninety-nine, I believe, and he happened to submit a wonderful application To the program, he also happened to get called up to serve in the Uni- in the Ukrainian Armed Forces. And that was true actually of four of our scholars over the, the three rounds of the fellowship. Four of them have been academics who are serving, in the military, and having this fellowship actually allowed them to continue their research, right? To, to continue their scholarship and their, their scholarly, contributions. So now, thank goodness, we come to 2025, and, um, we were able to expand the program to eight other universities across the Big Ten Academic Alliance. If you don't know, the Big Ten now includes 18 universities, and they, they, they hail from, from Maryland to the University of Washington. It's a really strange strange but wonderful kind of, kind of beast. and so these are the, the universities that are partnering now with Indiana and, the, the seed money this round comes not from the IU Provost, but from the Big Ten Academic Alliance Senior International Officers Group. so those are the folks at these universities, right, who are in charge of international affairs. So they sort of have some money they can allocate every year. They chose us And so it's wonderful. It's wonderful to have that buy-in. And then of course, you know, all of these universities are also, uh, pitching in matching funds again. And so we have scholars in the program this year who are associated with Indiana University, but scholars who are also associated with all of those other, units. Because we were so proactive in the beginning at getting in- Indiana University departments, units, programs to buy into the program, they're still doing it. So I just show this slide, you know, as an example of when you get people on board, when they start to care, right? About Ukraine, about the scholarship of Ukrainians. When they invite people, to give virtual lectures to their students, when they invite them to symposia and get to know them as individuals, they will keep giving money, and they will keep caring. And I think this is a beautiful example of that. I need to finish up here. I think I have two more slides. this is our, our brand new cohort. Our timeline was a little delayed this year just because you can imagine all the logistics of, of spreading across nine universities. but our cohort now has been, uh, going strong since December. You can see very diverse group of folks 40 fellows this year. And we do have future plans. Please get in touch with us using this email address if you're interested in partnering with us, if you are interested in, uh, getting to know more about this program and maybe brainstorming how you might do something like this at your own university. you know, we really see this, this, uh, program, which has been focused on Ukraine, as a flexible model, an adaptable model that could be applied to support scholars at risk in lots of different situations. And, um, you know, just hope, hope that folks will take inspiration from this model and think creatively about how to do that. So thank you for your attention. love to hear your thoughts on this, and, uh, look forward to the discussion. Thank you.

Speaker 8 32:08

Thank you so much. That's a wonderful presentation and, and a case. And, um, yeah, thank you not only for presenting the case, for, for, for, for implementing the whole thing, which is, uh, which is amazing. Uh, we have, uh, uh, we have to move forward, uh, with, with our presentations, and it's my pleasure to, to introduce to you, uh, Sarah Wilson, uh, Sokhey, and, uh... Dr. Sokhey earned her PhD from Ohio State University in 2010, and her research examines the intersection of politics and economics and has been featured in many, journals. Her book, The Political Economy of Pension Policy: Reversal in Post-Communist Countries, uh, earned the prestigious Hewitt Book Prize from the Association of Slavic East European and Regional Studies. Uh, since September 2023, she has organized the Civil Society and Ukrainian Resilience Loginov Series highlighting Ukrainian efforts during World War II. And I welcome you virtually on this presentation. The floor is yours.

Speaker 7 33:34

Do I?

Speaker 4 33:34

Yeah.

Speaker 7 33:36

Oh, yes. Oh, turn it on?

Speaker 9 33:38

That would help. Okay. there we go. Um, so, uh, first I wanna say I'm really honored to be here, uh, especially, as an American who's talking about Ukraine, and acutely aware that I, I should be thanking Ukrainians for having fought this war for three years, uh, on behalf of, of the world, uh, and democracy and freedom. And so today what I'm going to talk about is hope in Ukraine and civil society and civil society organizations Um, you can pull up the website for the webinar series I'm talking about there, where you can see the full list of re- um, pr- events that we've had, and you can see recordings of all of the Ukrainians who have spoken. I sincerely hope that I can do this some justice today because I can't speak for Ukrainians, but I can highlight their voices. And the-- I think the most important thing I can tell you in my 12 minutes today, uh, is to go watch this. Watch them talk about their experiences. that's much more meaningful than me highlighting a, a few quotes. But also, I only have 12 minutes, and I have some very long quotes. I couldn't help myself. Uh, and so you can pull up... I've posted the slides there as well from today, so you can see the slides in real-time now if you'd like to, that I'm talking about, in case I go kind of quickly. Uh, so this is part of a paper that I'm working on based on the experiences of people who participated in, uh, the webinar that started in fall 2023 and has gone through the end of 2024, and which we will pick up again, uh, in, uh, later this month. The QR code will be on the next slide as well if you missed it, so you can get it again. And my premise here is, thinking about the hope that's expressed in a very realistic way. So I very much appreciated the previous speaker today, who-- talking about, what hope was and Pandora's box and that there could be good and bad sides of this because, hope is a very interesting thing. And what I would argue is that the experiences expressed in this webinar series that's gone for a year and a half now and is continuing, does epitomize optimal hope, as defined by Oded Adomi Leshem, who's written a very excellent book about hope during conflict, focusing largely on the Israeli-Palestinian context, but talking about hope being a sentiment that combines a wish and an expectation, that there is a dangerous kind of hope, where you could have a really unrealistic, naive hope, where your, um, your, your hopes get dashed, uh, and, and are-- that's sort of very disillusioning. but the optimal hope is a resilient, sustainable kind of hope, and it's a hope based on your vision and commitment to the kind of world you want to see irregardless of your own estimation at the moment about if that's likely or not, if that's possible or not. and so this speaker series, just to let you know, I want to give full credit to my co-organizers. So this was co-organized with three people based in Ukraine: Olga Nikolskaya, who works with the ISAR Yednannya NGO, Roman Aleksenko, who's a community development project manager in Kyiv Ukraine, and Jeffrey D. Glenn, who is based in Dubno, Ukraine, is an American living and working in Ukraine, uh, right now. And myself, we've had 25 events. We've had 41 speakers, 34 of whom are Ukrainians, and the vast majority are living and working in Ukraine. we featured at least 17 Ukrainian organizations because often people have multiple affiliations or, sometimes we don't know all of their connections, so at least 17 organizations. and really a huge range of Ukrainians. So this is focusing on civil society and civil society organizations, but we define that very broadly. Um, and so we've had everyone from... We've had veterans and soldiers, uh, Yaryna Chornohuz. I don't-- Some of you may know some of these names or, or not. She's a poet, but she's also in the Ukrainian military. currently Daria Zabenko, who serves with her, has served with her at least, as well. Viktor Pilipenko, who started an NGO for LGBTQ+ people in the Ukrainian military. Tata Kepler, uh, is sometime a n- sometimes a name that people know, who has been... received a presidential award, a National Hero of Ukraine award, to, uh, comedians, to a local mayor, so a broad range of people. Although admittedly, uh, this is not... I wouldn't claim representative because as one of our speaper- speakers, Liza Eckman said, who interviews Ukrainians about war crimes happening, uh, in Ukraine, y-you can't generalize to everyone, and there's a lot of untold stories that, that are not captured by this. But this still does give us a sense of some of the most active people in civil society and civil society organizations and how they see, how they see hope and their wishes and expectations. And so, as I said, I mean, really just the common, the sort of common theme that I see here is that with, what they express in this, that Ukrainians do v- have, very clearly have a hope, but that if we think of wishes and expectations separately as part of that sentiment of hope, they have that hope even though there's tremendous variation in who on the given day that they talk to us in this webinar or their own perspective, their expectation that it would happen. So this is not a, a naive hope, in other words. This is a hope that's very realistically, looking at or realist... I, um, don't know if it's for me to assess if it's realistic or not. It varies widely, uh, is what I would say. if they expect success, uh, or not in the kind of hope that they have. And so with the time that I have, what I mostly want to do is promote some of the things that they said and hope that you'll go actually watch them. These are all posted as recordings that are on YouTube, you can watch the entirety of the events and hear them talk about, their, their own experiences. So Tata Kepler, does many, many things, but is the founder of Patahi, uh, and received the National Legend of Ukraine Presidential Prize. and I-- the quote that I've chosen here, and I really struggled to just pick a few quotes, and this is just scraping the surface of the, of the people that we've had in the speaker series. She said,"I really don't know for how long it will be. I feel... my feeling is that this war is for years, really for years." And she was saying this in twenty twenty-three."It unfortunately can't stop tomorrow, and of course, you know, I want this winning day to go to the Maidan and to dance on the street because we won this war and Putin is dead and Russia signed the capitulation. But I understand that unfortunately it's not gonna be like that." So I mean, she's doing a tremendous amount of practical everyday work, is a person who, uh, had a tremendous amount of hope for what Ukraine could be and what it should be, and freedom, but was very realistic in her assessment. This was very much an optimal kind of hope, like Lashem talks about, that she was not assuming success. That's not why she did, uh, what she did. And so I've given a, a more extended quote here that gives her background, which is really interesting. She grew up in Israel. She talks about being traumatized again by having been young and been in-- lived in a country that was in conflict in the early nineteen nineties, and so that the war in Ukraine was a huge trigger for her and caused a lot of flashbacks, and she talked about the exhaustion in twen- again, this is in twenty twenty-three, that, that she and others were facing. What I wanted to highlight there at the bottom is she said,"But I understand that no one needs us anywhere in the world. No one." Which is a very not hopeful sounding statement."It's true, like I'm super grateful for every help, but I understand that we have to fight for ourselves as hard as we can." So even then, she very much had this sense of, we're grateful for all the help we can get, and we know it's up to us, this very realistic, arguably realistic assessment. but what she also said, and I, I love this, uh, is that she said,"Really, there's no tomorrow. There's no other minutes you can do anything, that you w- there's no other minutes that you can do the things you wanted to do, unfortunately. And you understand these things only in these, you know, dark, hard times. So say that you love the people you love, hug your loved ones. If you want, make something good. Just remember that there's so many cruelties in this world that you can't just get crazy. So if you can do something good, do something that's making you a human. I believe this will save the world, the kindness and the goodness." And you have to remember about this, and I hope that all your dreams will come true. She's saying this to an American audience. And just keep dreaming, a largely American audience at least. Just do something and never stop. So there is this combination of realizing that there may not be success, that Ukraine might be on its own, and realizing i-it's kind of like the power of hopelessness, like the speaker was saying earlier today, in the sense of there's nothing left to lose. Y-these are the minutes you have, so do something with them. there were others, of course, as well, and I only have two minutes, which is why you have the link, uh, to read all these nice quotes and actually watch these people say these things. so similarly, Olga Nikulska, who helped organize this, saying the picture's not very bright and clear, but there's all this potential in the youth of Ukraine, right? we have people like Roman Aleksenko also who helped organize this, saying, um, quoting, uh, someone, a friend of his saying,"We're all gonna die in this war. We're all gonna die." But they're still getting up and doing the things that are hopeful in the sense of they have a vision of what Ukraine can and should be, and they're still acting. Aliya Chandra, was... is the editor-in-chief of Euromaidan Press, and talking about the possibility of change and change is possible. You have to work hard to make it happen, um, and you have to dream in this future we're fighting for. But was also, in her general statements, quite realistic about the prospects. We have a student from the Ukrainian Catholic University who joined because we did a session on war from a teenage perspective, Romana Pavlyuk, who was really... One of the things she was inspired by was the Unissued Diplomas exhibit and the woman who organized it. Does... Some people are nodding, they know this. It's about university students, uh, students in Ukraine that were killed. And that was her-- She said,"That's what gives me the most hope, is the woman who organized this exhibition about unissued, uh, diplomas in Ukraine." So a combination, and this goes w-to one of the other speakers who was saying about you acknowledge the children's grief and you say you're, you praise them for coping well, right? I-it's sort of like she acknowledged the grief and got hope from, uh, the woman who was promoting that. This is Roman's son, who also joined, Nazar Aleksenko, who was, uh, inspired by his nation. And, uh, Lisa Reichman, that I mentioned at the beginning, who, uh, she especially, I would encourage you to go back and, and read her full quote and watch her. Um, she's in a-- She's talking about transitional justice in Ukraine and interviewing people who have lost people who have suffered from war crimes, and saying that there's not, there's not a single story here. This is quite a complicated dimension of justice and hope, uh, and other things. and I knew I would run out of time, but Alona Khmelieva, who said that... She's a, so she's a human rights attorney from Ukraine- And was more hopeful than I could have imagined, uh, than I was in November of 2024 saying,"Yeah, there's a lot of bad war crimes, but this is one of the best documented wars." And eventually, I'm paraphrasing here, grossly paraphrasing, but she said,"Eventually we'll get them," is essentially the like... It's gonna take a long time, and this was mentioned before in a previous session, this conference. Like, it might take decades to get war crimes prosecuted. Milosevic was brought up. Uh, he was in power, and then the ICTY got him. So I, I, I mean, this, that, that is a remarkable kind of optimal hope, in my opinion. Uh, and there's hope from collaboration. So Jeffrey Glenn, who helped organize this speaker series, and I are setting up, Really, Jeffrey is spearheading this, a, a virtual exchange civic education engagement program. And so I think that this kind of collaboration brings a level of hope as well, in connecting us. And is the... There's the QR code again. so you can, if you didn't already, you're welcome to pull that up. but thank you so much. Thank

Speaker 8 46:44

you. you?

Speaker 10 46:50

Thank you very much. that was, uh, that was very helpful, to listen and to realize and to understand, um, what, what, what has been done. And, um, now we, um, go forward, and, um, I'm, uh, very honored and pleased to invite, Kristina, uh, Stijavaite. And, uh, Kristina Stijavaite is a sociocultural anthropologist. her research spans ethnic identity, interethnic interaction, social memory, the interplay of ethnic and religious identities, and forced migration and displacement. She has contributed to numerous collaborative research projects addressing these themes. Currently, she serves as an associate professor and senior researcher at the Institute of Asian and Transcultural Studies at Vilnius University, and the floor is yours.

Speaker 3 47:41

Thank you very much for introducing me. Thank you very much, for, for this chance to, to be there and to discuss, uh, some findings, some thoughts from ongoing research. And, uh, I hope in my presentation we'll have many commonalities with the insights from other presentations, but also there is something different as well. So the title is, uh, So Many People Helped Us: Help, Empathy, and Care as Signs of Humanity in the ra- narratives of war and migration of refugees from Ukraine in Lithuania. So actually, this conference was very useful for me because it pushed me, forced me to look at my data, which I collected currently in ongoing research project.

Speaker 7 48:35

is it on?

Speaker 3 48:36

Is it... Oh, okay. And, uh, through these lenses of hope, and I found it very pro- productive, and, uh, not-

Speaker 7 48:47

No problem.

Speaker 10 48:51

I think it should, it should be, should be all right.

Speaker 3 48:54

Close. Okay. So I'm anthropologist and, I While thinking, about my-- While doing this research among I, I'm talking with people who were forced to leave Ukraine to Poland, to then to Germany, and finally came to Lithuania or came directly to Lithuania via Poland. Most of them in my, we call it a sample in our, in our science, uh, most of them are women, absolute majority, with, kids who were forced to leave, especially from eastern sp- eastern part of, uh, Ukraine, but also there are people from Kyiv, from Kharkiv, and, and from Lviv, in Lithuania now. And, uh, these are, in-depth interviews which I aim not to interrupt as much as I can, what means that I have broad questions, but then I allow people to tell their stories because I am very much sure that I am, do not have the experience these people have, so I don't, I won't be able to ask right questions. And, uh, it proved very much that listening, uh, and, uh, uh, asking just some, additional questions actually, m- helped people to tell their stories, which I am very thankful to, to this. And at the same time, during these interviews, we are doing different things, like we are crying sometimes together, sometimes people who were telling they were crying. I hope it was not re-traumatization because usually people at the end thanked that it h- was kind of relief at the end. But from my perspective, when I was thinking about this conference and thinking about data, I was thinking,"What hope can I find in these interviews?" When Because biggest part of interviews is about what happened when war started, how people had to collect the things very quickly and And run away in the night, in the darkness, or hide for in that big period of time, and then came to, uh, Lithuania, and here again, much of uncertainty. And then I was started to think, and I think that, there are certain aspects related with solidarity, which actually is about hope, and I am trying to, sh- I will try to show this. So when I look at the theoretical, uh, literature on migration, hope in migration, in voluntary migration, is about future. You migrate if you are migrate by your own will, hoping that the future will give something good for you. But what's if, if it's forced migration? If you have to run away from the war, from the bombs, from, insecurity? And, uh, one of my arguments I will return back, it's that when I was asking my research participants about the future, normally the answer was, of course, they were involved in many civic activities. They were, caring about schools. They were, uh, making nets, uh, camouflages, and so on. But normally they were saying,"It could be like this or like that. I don't know how it really will be with me, whether I will stay in Lithuania or I will return." In many cases, they have no place to return, especially if they are from eastern part of Ukraine. So it's about uncertainty, and, uh, I try to show how the hope is linked to the present and at the same time I will try to say that, hope in the present builds hope for the future. So, no time, so very quickly, I am from the Baltic state, Lithuania. These states are probably known more broadly that they are very much wel- inc- welcomed, people from Ukraine who experienced war. And you can see this is one of the buildings in the central part of Vilnius. Everywhere you can see Ukrainian flags. We have, I just checked before the conference, more than 90,000 citizens of Ukraine. The number is all the time changing. And all the, uh, surveys show that, Ukraine immigrants in Lithuania are perceived very positively by citizens of Lithuania. So they, as in other European countries, they get temporary protection status, uh, and, which provides the right to employment, health protection, social benefits, uh, and so on. And as an anthropologist, I'm inspired by researchers who look for the emic perspective of how events, how the situations are constructed from those who are in the situation. So first of all- All interviews, this was repetition. It was about shattered or lost hopes of humanity and of human development. That means that, uh, in most, in many cases, the people were saying that we didn't thought that the war will begin because it's 21st century. It's like repetition, that we're civilized now, that it was not like back then in the 20th century. So you can have these lost hopes of human development or from humanity in almost all interviews. And it's about life divided by the war into before and after. It's about living for extended periods in occupation or under when bombs co- come out in cold, darkness, scary sources, physical vulnerability when you can lose your life, any moment. For example, darkness, I never thought, uh, before, but one woman she said that, uh, what made, what went into her mind that when she left the place where they lived in occupation and le- left into the safe territory of Ukraine, it was moving from dark when you cannot lit, for example, the light because you are hide to the light, to the when you have light around you. then self is living in the present. So even in safe territories, people talk about social insecurity. like they do not know how long the war will, will go. They do not know what will happen in the future. It's very common."I do not planned anything for the future at all. I do not plan anything since 2014." This is a quotation. They talk that they are very easily can, uh, leave Lithuania if something bad happens there and go further because of the feeling of homelessness and uprootedness, especially in the situation of those people whose homes are taken over, who are from the territories that are occupied. And changed virtues, they also very much refer to this. It's about they know what is the most important in human sense now, this humanity. So it's s- locked in temporarity, in present situation, and, uh, this feeling of uncertainty, probably I would say it like this. And what brings hope, like when you-- when they talk about these very, uh, very hard stories, very difficult stories like who are sitting sometimes for three hours, it's about-- I call-- I find these dimensions. One of them is what they call recognition or understanding as dimension of home. In some other research, for example, by Mitch, Barzel, Çalik, Zolotarova, they call being acknowledged and heard. It's- This common saying to me, we do not have to explain anything to you. That means that the history is very much-- there are many perils in the history of Ukraine and Baltic states, and that means that many people in my research sample say that you, you don't ha-- you do not have to explain s- as much as we have to explain in other more further to the West countries what is Russia, what is happening, what is the aggression, what is our history. And this comes together with the symbolic recognition and that what I already showed in the photo, symbols of Ukraine, flags, uh, colors, uh, on the windows, uh, on the public houses, on the individual houses, on local people's, uh, clubs, everywhere. And here I just want one quotation from interview."It's arrived on Saturday evening, and it was dark. On Sunday, I decided to go out. I go and see Ukrainian flags everywhere. Many flags. I see signs on the buildings.'Lietuva kartu su Ukraina.' Lithuania is together with Ukraine. I was touched." Then it's empathy, empathy, understanding of other suffering, like sufferings, uh, that are, that are caused by the war, and empathy of people who are not of the same nationality, not of the same citizenship, but who perceive the suffering as of their own. So I think that it's also some dimension of hope. And during these, narratives, interviews, people were emphasizing this."I am standing like this, and the volunteers came up to me. They just came at random. They saw this man standing there is in shock. They offered to help. They brought me in, gave me tea, started offering to help me stay overnight, to help me with clothes. I was so surprised at all. I am not used to people doing that." And it's not only about Lithuania, it's also about Ukraine. When you are traveling through Ukraine, when you m- that leave Ukraine, people were telling stories how people whom they never met before in other districts of Lithuania were just helping with food, with accommodation, with traveling, and in Poland the same. And there are many, many these, uh, stories inside. And then it's help, material help like housing, clothing, food, uh, which is this-- which is shared by, non-governmental organization, by individuals. Social help in the form of helping with local rules, bureaucratic requirements, medical issues, and also help provided by the state, uh, in, w- giving rights, allowances, help, real help. And, uh, here is also some quotations. For example, in the first of one, a woman in Kaunas is telling how she is in-- during the first, weeks in Kaunas, she is, uh, she-- they were just sitting in the flat alone knowing nobody, and there was some knock at the door. And, um, and, uh, I said,"I apologize, I can't speak Lithuanian." I show my passport. They say,"What are you apologizing for? It's okay." For me, that day was pleasant shock. She gives me an a tick- a ticket and says-- Or not. It's not about this. Uh, but anyway, it's also there. Like the w- like somebody who helped just to reach the bus, to show the way, and, uh, and go away. Religion is also, something like this. And the final is, I want to say that in this situation where forced migration, displacement, when people had to run from the war, hope is n- of course, people think what they will do in the future. Of course, they engaged in many civic, uh, activities. But at the same time, the research and participants, uh, emphasize that such general human qualities as empathy, understanding, recognition of the needs of others as the most important in the encounter with the host societies and with other people on the way, and as the source of hope. And I would say that this builds relationship based on trust with the host society, with other human beings, and nurture hope for the future. And I think that all this is about solidarity.

Speaker 10 1:01:07

Yeah, thank you so much. And if I may invite my, my colleagues back to the table. I realize that you feel comfortable with, with the audience, but, please, um, take your place here. And, I really-- I'm kind-- I'm very moved. i-in all what you just said and presented, I very much kinda recognize, uh, Ukraine and Ukrainians and the situation we are going through. it's amazingly accurate and, and deep and profound. And, um, in a way, I kind of feel almost, um, uh, speechless, uh, but just kind of, um, digesting and going through all, all the presentations that you just made. And I'm, I'm profoundly grateful not only on the kind of academic or research level, but also on the kind of very personal level. Thank you for, for what you've achieved and for your investment and expertise and time, into this research. And it's all kind of people-bound, um, kind of research. There's only-- not only academic, uh, or research interest as I read it in, in, in all your research, but there is very profound personal, connection, Understanding and supportive, kind of connection to, um, to, to, to, to the, to the situations, uh, you explore and analyze. Sadly, we have only 10 minutes, I think, left for, um, for questions and answers. I'd be happy to hear questions. We probably can take, um, even if needed, we could have, uh, say, two rounds, uh, of taking, uh, a few questions each round, if we have that many questions. Please raise your hands. I'm seeing two hands already. So let's take, um, these two questions, and then we'll see who's going to respond.

Speaker 11 1:02:49

Thank you very much. I'm Olga Philippova, and I would like to ask you regarding education in Ukraine, and, uh, in, in some degree, it's very painful topic for me as well. And, you told, talked about, talked about, education and especially patriotic education. But my concern is about militarization of Ukrainian society. We have now, it's understandable, but, I also suppose that this militarization of society will be our, with us for next several decades. And how i- how to deal with this militarization of society and education? Because recently, like couple days ago, I heard, through the news that in some Ukrainian school, some courses were introduced for children, of age like, uh, nine till 17, manage drones or to provide first aid and so on. I, I have no... I don't have answer, but it's really concerned me a lot. And, um, even don't know how to formulate question. Militarization of society and hope and education, what can we do with this and how?

Speaker 10 1:04:12

Thank you so much. And let's have, uh, our second question, please.

Speaker 12 1:04:16

I'm Andrew Michura. My question is directed at Dr. Gary. I think just the short of it, uh, w- kind of based on your research and everything, what resources do you think educators need to help their students pretty much catch up on all the lost time that they've had between COVID and then the full-scale invasion? Thank you.

Speaker 10 1:04:36

All right. Is there a third question in the audience? Let's take that one, and then we'll open the floor for answers. Thank you. I think it's rather the comment because I wanted to thank you all, because for me, it's very important that you understand the context, right, and that you support Ukraine. And so thank you so much for your research and for all the activities that you're doing. But I also wanted to Highlight probably that it's not just the institutions that give Ukrainians hope, right, and that give, uh, students hope, but also students themselves, and even, small children in the schools. And there is this org- organization in Ukraine called SaveEd. And so students at school, maybe age 10 and older, they organize, projects and, organize fundraising to actually to, to have the support for their projects to actually, uh, get some education in the, front line, territories. And this is amazing. So thank you so much. What was your name again? Oh, sorry. Uh, it's Vitana.

Speaker 8 1:05:46

Yeah. Please, go ahead.

Speaker 2 1:05:47

So to, to answer your question, most quickly, I don't have an answer for that. That's something that in future research I'll definitely want to look into. All I can say is that in particular hasn't emerged in literature. It's been, just focused on vyhovuvannya but with a focus on, um, children developing for themselves, with- without a militaristic bent. The, the literature does talk about vocational education, and this is pedagogical sciences, so articles that were excluded here were about military education, but in academies. So I don't have an answer, but that's... Thank you for bringing it to my attention. That is very worrying. as far as what resources, teachers are tapped out. Teachers can't do more. I think there's a limit to what schools at this point, even with maximal funding, can do. And so as much as community organizations and non-governmental organizations can be supported by Americans, especially with the loss of USAID funding, that's where I would ask people to look. For example, there's an organization called GoGlobal that implemented a very successful program called Catch to help students catch up that had been displaced or simply had fallen behind because of so much online learning. and they had USAID funding, and the program is jeopardized. So, and other local initiatives even, I'm very interested in comedy, comedy initiatives to help children get out of their houses and socialize, that, that are initiated at the local level by people that know local needs best.

Speaker 10 1:07:19

Would anyone of you like to add something, a follow-up, or shall we go for another round? Another round? Okay. Do we have questions? Yeah, please. Here is... J- j- just hold on for a second. Yeah, just...

Speaker 13 1:07:33

Uh, thank you for all your speeches. It was amazing. I have also questions to Dr. Gray about education. mm, my question about art education, more music educat- education, because these all problems we have also in music schools. But You can teach online. For example, you can teach theory of music or history of music, but not how to play in violin or how to play in piano or how to sing. It's not possible to teach online. My question is, did you have a thought about it, or did you read something relating to, uh, what challenges in art education are? Thank

Speaker 10 1:08:09

you. Do we have another question or comment from the audience? All right. So let's, uh, let's then stay with this question and,

Speaker 4 1:08:21

yeah.

Speaker 2 1:08:22

If we have time, maybe I'll ask a question also of you. But, um, uh, so, so not specifically in this set of, of articles, where art gets mentioned now post-2022 is often in the context of art therapy, or as I mentioned, the academy recommended using time in class not to teach math for or to teach content where students are sitting in their desk, but one thing that was recommended was doing art, right? with, with the children at a time if they're able to be in person. So that might be something that educators, without necessarily writing about it as a pedagogical recommendation, that might be something that's being done on a local level because you can't teach art or music online, and you can teach math online, potentially.

Speaker 4 1:09:07

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:09:08

Please. Yeah. I would like just to-- it's not to answer to the question. Microphone

Speaker 10 1:09:14

crash. Just get closer to- Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:09:15

I don't, I don't know to answer, but when thinking about, Ukrainians, that were for- forced to leave, I want to say that, since I have done much of research before among different, different, uh, people, different social groups, that they are the most active in different spheres, and education is one of them. For example, I don't know whether you know this, but in Lithuania, we started our research in two thousand... It was, was even not the year after the, war ended. And now we have, I don't know how many schools, many schools, international Ukrainian school. We have subdivisions in Vilnius, in Kaunas, in Klaipeda. Some other schools, like from Kharkiv, one school was moved directly to Vilnius. Some other initiatives, and in these schools, people, teachers who came, who were forced to migrate from Ukraine, they are teachers again. They're in the same position than before. And the kids, in order not to go to schools with Russian language of instruction and, uh, those who for whom Lithuanian is not so easy, or maybe also those who plan to come to Ukraine, but the schools are full of, of, of, of, of, of, pupils. So for me, it was, uh, really amazing And, uh, the way, teachers, the administration talked about the role of these schools is, is, is, is very hopeful for both also for Ukrainian but also for Lithuanians.

Speaker 10 1:10:48

Time is on very fast. I think we're l- left just within two minutes, and I, I'd like- We have

Speaker 2 1:10:53

one more question.

Speaker 10 1:10:54

Do we have time? Okay. Yeah. Well, let's, let's, let's just hear questions. We just kind of-

Speaker 14 1:10:58

Sorry, it's, it's just going to be a comment that actually ties up Sarah Wilson's and Sarah Phillips', uh, uh, elements in, in your presentation. So Sarah, you said that, uh, your respondent said that we know we are on our own.

Speaker 9 1:11:12

One of them did, yes.

Speaker 14 1:11:12

Yes. And this is-- I, I understand that this is the feeling when y- which you get when in the middle of the night you're there in the darkness. But then Sarah Phillips showed that you're not on your own because every individual effort you-- what started as an individual effort has turned into a really group and massive change. And, what you said, it doesn't cost to give people access to electronic resources, and of course it makes a huge impact on their academic, chances. But it also reminds them that we all care, that we're with them, and that the world has not forgotten or h- has got used to this war. It just keeps posing challenges. So, I'd like to thank you, Sarah, for, for this, and I think this is very inspiring for all of us and making us think that there's things we can do on our own, and we can start a single-handed, enterprise that will just go like wildfire in, in, in your case. So thank you very much for that example. Thank you.

Speaker 10 1:12:08

Yeah, I simply can't resist from asking my question and, and just give you, each of you for like 20 seconds to answer. And the, the question is, um, what was the most important thing that you learned or discovered or were surprised by going through this research?

Speaker 3 1:12:27

For me it's agency. Courage and agency. I never met, uh, so much-- so courage-- people with such a huge courage, so united even in this situation.

Speaker 9 1:12:45

So I think the thing that maybe surprised me most and stuck with me most was something that Lisa Rechtman said, about how she went... I mean, she went and interviewed people for her PhD dissertation. She's interviewing people about war crimes, and she said,"You know, of course there was pain and suffering. I expected to hear all that. What I didn't expect were to hear all these..." I, I think she didn't ex-expect, uh, the ver- the varieties of hope, but also the, like, resilience that, like, most of it was stories of people coping, uh, and being resilient. And it's tragic that they have to be resilient in this way, but she said you expect to hear the pain and suffering. You didn't-- she didn't expect actually to, like, what people come out with initially was resilience and coping, and that was them talking to a fellow Ukrainian. so I think that was I don't know if it was surprising, but that's what stuck with me, the most.

Speaker 5 1:13:32

I would, um, say that I've really learned that solidarity comes in many forms, and it's, um, it's very important to ask people what their needs are in the moment instead of assuming what their needs are. And, uh, community is a beautiful thing, and we all need community is something that I've really, really, come to believe. So one of the reasons I was so excited about spending the weekend, uh, with all of you, this is our community. So thank you.

Speaker 2 1:14:06

I think what really surprised me the most, sorry, um, I, I expected to, to be reading articles about Vychovannya, about upbringing, about child development. What I didn't expect and what I think, um, is appropriate here at Notre Dame is that so much of that discussion about training and values would be linked to spirituality and would be linked to something called Ukrainian spiritual values. And so I think that's, um, that's surprising and interesting and, and something just to remember, um, as we're listening to Ukrainian voices that, uh, that the approach to education might be different than it is here.

Speaker 10 1:14:40

Well, thank you so much. These are wonderful concluding thoughts. And, um, and on behalf of our audience, uh, I thank you, for your research, for your contributions. that was truly, that was truly amazing. And on our behalf, I would like to thank our wonderful, um, audience here for your, uh, attentiveness and, and your questions, uh, a-and your faces, which I'm kind of seeing from, seeing from here. And that, that's, um, uh, that means a lot, to all of us, uh, here. So thank you so much. And, uh, I, I, I think you deserve applause, right? That's true. And, uh, and on, also on behalf of the organizers, I have some, uh, little presents, um, uh, to give to you. And, um, it's my pleasure to do that. Sarah, this is for you. And, um, Sarah Kane, this is for you. And let me see what's, what's in here. Ah, Christina. And there is still something left, uh, I think. Ah, exactly. And this is for you, Ami. Yeah. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Yeah.