Dialogues Across the Decades, Part 3: Growing into Leadership and Service

Episode Topic: Growing into Leadership and Service

Ever wondered how a summer bridge program transforms into lifelong connections? Listen in to stories of alumni from the Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program, which helped them navigate rigorous academic terrains with confidence, uplifted by a community that championed their excellence. Witness the bonds that sustain leadership and fuel a lifetime of impact.

Featured Speakers:

• Jetaun Davis-Anderson '05, Emory University
• Krystal Hardy Allen '07, K. Allen Consulting
• J. Zane Stephens '07
• Calleen Jones ‘08
• Frank Duerson ‘07

Read this episode's recap over on the University of Notre Dame's open online learning community platform, ThinkND: https://go.nd.edu/ddab15.

This podcast is a part of the ThinkND Series titled Dialogues Across the Decades: Conversations with Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program Alumni.

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Transcript

Welcome and the Alumni Panel

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 0:13

Welcome to Dialogues Across the Decades: Conversations with Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program Alumni, where we will share the legacy and impact of the Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program at the University of Notre Dame. conversations are very timely as we prepare to celebrate 40 years of the program in September. So please plan to join us on campus September 10th through the 13th during the Notre Dame Rice weekend to celebrate. for today, we celebrate with the third episode in this series, and today's theme is Growing Into Leadership and Service. you just tuned into the series, please be sure to listen to the first two episodes that give the history and overview of the Balfour-Hesburgh program. today, we will reflect on the impact the program made on participants from the second decade of the program, and specifically from 2003 to 2005. So before we jump in, we want to extend, uh, some thanks, some thanks to our co-sponsors for Dialogues Across the Decades series, including the Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program, as well as the Notre Dame Alumni Association. We also want to thank program director Dr. Cecilia Lucero for her long-standing involvement and leadership of the program for more than 25 years. Man, it's been a while. So now let's get started. My name is Jatan Davis. I joined the Balfour family in the summer of 2001 and graduated from the University of Notre Dame in 2005. That's when I officially became part of the Notre Dame alumni family. And today, I will be serving as a moderator for today's discussion with four other alumni. So first, I'll turn it over to Crystal to get us started

Krystal Hardy Allen 2:09

Hey everyone, I'm Crystal Hardy Allen. I, um, entered the Balfour program in the summer of 2003, um, was led by the incredible Jitan, um, as a big sister. Um, I graduated in 2007. I lived in Cavanaugh Hall, um, and post-graduation, um, became an educator. Um, so an award-winning school teacher and principal. Um, and for the last decade, I have been a social entrepreneur, so I lead a management consulting firm based in New Orleans, Louisiana. Um, we work across the globe, and I'm also a best-selling author and a philanthropist.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 2:47

Thank you, Crystal. Now let's turn it over to Frank

Frank Duerson 2:52

I gotta follow that up, you know? Um, I'm Frank Dorson. Uh, uh, like Crystal, um, I'm Balfour Class '03. Uh, graduating class of 2007 from Notre Dame. I lived in Keough Hall, was the new dorms when I was there, so we was living in luxury. So I really appreciate that. Got us deep love for South Dining Hall. currently, uh, I'm a pulmonary critical care physician. I'm finishing up my fellowship here at the University of Virginia, so I'm currently stationed in Virginia. But in a few weeks I'm moving back home to, uh, Gainesville, Florida, where I will establish my own private pulmonary critical care practice

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 3:29

Thank you, Frank. Kayleen

Calleen Jones 3:35

Hi, um, Kaleen Jones. Uh, so I'm Balfour class of 2004. Um, I lived in Pangborn Hall for, uh, Balfour year and all four years that I was at Notre Dame, which Pangborn Hall is no longer there. Um, um, I graduated class of 2008. and since graduation, I, um, participated in AmeriCorps, um, and got my master's in, uh, social work and have been working in medical social work and now at the VA in suicide prevention, um, helping, uh, our veterans, uh, make sure that they stay safe

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 4:14

Thank you. Now, Mr. Stephens

J. Zane Stephens 4:18

Hey, I'm, uh, Zane Stevens. You may have known me as Jeff Stevens back in the day, but had to change my name to Zane because, uh, it's my middle name, and I go for it with my stage name. But anyway, Balfour '03 with Frank and Crystal. Um, and class of 2007, I was in Keenan Hall. short bio, quickly, straight after Notre Dame, I went to WashU in St. Louis for law school. Mm, directly after that, I went into big law, served in big law for 11 years, went in-house, became general counsel. Now I'm a senior director of legal operations and product counsel for a fintech company out in California. Split time between California and LA. Why California? Uh, I'm also a, a national voiceover artist. I was the spokesperson for Popeyes, among other brands. And you may have seen me on Law Order, FBI, and I'm in the upcoming movie with Cameron Diaz called Bad Day on Netflix

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 5:10

Just a little bit of things going on, not too much.

J. Zane Stephens 5:13

Just a little bit. Hey, when you ain't got no kids, you know?

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 5:18

Thank you all for being here today

Arriving: First Steps and Belonging

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 5:20

to take a moment out of your busy schedules, as we've all heard, to reflect on the Balfour program. as Ivy said, today we are gathering in celebration of 40 years of the Balfour-Hesburgh Scholars Program to reflect on how the program helped you grow into leadership and service. The program welp- welcomed you as bright-eyed high school graduates who were eagerly anticipating what the next four years of college would bring. Do y'all remember that?

Krystal Hardy Allen 5:50

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 5:52

So

Krystal Hardy Allen 5:53

Oh, yes

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 5:54

think back to that moment when you stepped foot on campus for the Balfour program. W- what was your mindset? What were you anxious about, worried about, or excited about?

Frank Duerson 6:08

You know what? I'm not even gonna hold you. I, I'll say it all. I'll start off. So when I was going into, when we was going into the Balfour Program, um, what was that movie, Jeff? Drumline.

J. Zane Stephens 6:18

Which one? Oh,

Krystal Hardy Allen 6:19

Hello, Jeremiah.

J. Zane Stephens 6:20

yeah

Frank Duerson 6:20

Drumline had just dropped, so that was the movie that I seen

Krystal Hardy Allen 6:23

It sure would

Frank Duerson 6:24

before I arrived on campus at Notre Dame to do the summer program. So I'm not gonna lie, my expectations was for thing, but when I arrived on campus, it was a different thing. But that just shows that like God always his hand on you and he knows where to put you, he knows the best place for you. So, um, where I thought it was going to be some wild, you know, rambunctious four years of life, it-- I really, you know, landed there and realized that, nah, if you wanna get somewhere, you wanna achieve your goals, you know, you gotta have a sense of structure. And so, um, just to meet those friends that we're still close to this day, you know, 20 years later, we still check in on each other. Um, that's a blessing. So as far as the expectation, I'm not gonna lie, I thought it was gonna be like Howard University. I thought it was gonna be like Drumline. I was like, "This is my moment to go to college." And when I got to the, uh, Lady of the Lakes, it was a, it was a culture shock. I'm not gonna lie.

J. Zane Stephens 7:19

Oh, they stomping the yard. No.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 7:23

I have, I have other questions as a, a college administrator in the admissions office. I have other questions, but I'm gonna

Krystal Hardy Allen 7:30

Okay

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 7:31

Just like, wait, what, what kind of research did you do? But we will, we will, maybe we will kinda get to that. Let's, let's hear from everybody else.

Frank Duerson 7:39

be honest, I'm gonna be honest

J. Zane Stephens 7:41

I'ma follow up Frank. Um, I remember stepping foot on campus and walking into Morrissey, there was Frank, there was Jeraz, there was Jason. I don't think Chinedu was there, but there was some other folks. And I was just like, "Oh man, these kids kinda look like..." 'Cause I went to all boys, all Black high school. I was like, "All right, these kinda look like some of my old friends." But you know, I just, ex- I didn't expect the amount of wealth that was there. Like, you get on campus, there's all types of f- you know, foreign cars in the parking garage, people wearing brands and things I've never seen. Um, so it was, it was, it was interesting. But I was excited because I always treated Notre Dame like my Disney World. It was, you know, I'm south side of Chicago, so you get on campus, it's like, wow. It's clean, no roaches, no mice. You got internet, great food. So I, I was excited. I was a little scared, but excited

Krystal Hardy Allen 8:32

Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 8:33

was it? It was South, right?

J. Zane Stephens 8:35

No, I was Keenan. Keenan Hall, so I was

Krystal Hardy Allen 8:37

North side. North side.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 8:38

North food was good? No, I'm

Krystal Hardy Allen 8:40

Yeah.

J. Zane Stephens 8:40

Yeah. No, the pasta, the pasta was hitting. Come

Krystal Hardy Allen 8:43

burbs over there, Josiah.

J. Zane Stephens 8:45

Mm-hmm.

Krystal Hardy Allen 8:46

We were in the burbs. Oh my God. I'll go next and just share that, um, you know, as a young 18-year-old Black girl from a rural small town in the South, um, I felt, uh, grateful to be there. I felt like I was on sacred ground being the first in my immediate family to, um, to go to college, you know? Um, and I also felt scared too, because I was so many states and so many hours away from home. Um, and so I think for me it was one thing to go to college and then go to a prestigious university. It was another thing for me to be completely outside of the Southeast in a totally different region of the US, um, so young. Um, and I think that I felt at the same time a positive pressure, though a real pressure, to not disappoint my family. Um, so it's, it's a fear of like, you got here and now you gotta perform, girl, and you gotta do what you need to do, 'cause a lot of people are looking up to you to not have just made it to Notre Dame, but to do well while you're there, you know? Um, and then the last thing I'll say is that I felt, um, grateful, I know we're gonna get into this for Balfour, because there is a kindred spirit when you meet other Black young people who understand that they are Black, who welcome their Blackness, and who are committed to navigating this experience of Notre Dame together, um, not shying away from who they are. 'Cause the ab- 'cause it was a mixture of all different types of students of color, and not everyone leaned into that

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 10:28

So having Balfour as that container, it introduced you, introduced you to those students early on

Krystal Hardy Allen 10:34

Yeah, it was like a kindred. It was like a kindred connection. It felt like the closest thing to home

Frank Duerson 10:41

That's why the first day of school was actually like a real culture shock, 'cause we had like cocooned ourselves and,

Krystal Hardy Allen 10:46

Mm-hmm.

Frank Duerson 10:46

a class together, you know, we did tests together, we studied together. We pretty

Krystal Hardy Allen 10:50

Yeah.

Frank Duerson 10:50

campus to ourselves. And then when August hit and then, you know, everybody else showed up, it was like, taking over our spot, man," you know? Like what, but, but, but I was glad we, we had the opportunity to go there, you know, to just kinda, you know, lay of the land, you know, kinda see where things are,

Krystal Hardy Allen 11:06

Yeah

Frank Duerson 11:06

the rigor of the, of the institution. 'Cause you, you-- 'cause when you coming outta high school, one thing I'd always remember, you know, you like cannot rise to that level, 'cause, you know, everybody say people, college is difficult, especially these type of upper tier schools. It's like I know I did well in high school, but do I have what it takes to get there? So I think that summer program actually helped a lot to kinda assuage all those fears and say like, "Yeah, I, I can do this," you know. They, they, they admitted me for a reason, you know. And then to be around other people that, you know, had the same, you know, high intellect, that was pretty cool

Krystal Hardy Allen 11:35

Yeah

Calleen Jones 11:39

Right. Um, for me, I think first of all, my mama didn't want me to go. She didn't want me to go that far away from home. But I had a spirit more like my daddy of travel. Um, and so I wanted to leave home, see something different. Um, but at the same time, I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. Um, I don't know if Crystal knows this, but she's like the main reason why I even made it the university. Um, one, she... To, just shout out the African American Phone Project. She ca- she was one of the students who called me, um, and then did the follow-up

Krystal Hardy Allen 12:23

Yeah

Calleen Jones 12:24

and I was like, "Hey, my mom said I can't go 'cause I can't afford the, um, registration fee." She was like, "Girl, you can get that waived." And I was like, "What?" Um, so then I arrived on campus, and, um, I was, I was grateful that, you know, Crystal was there. It was somebody that I felt like I knew. and then getting to meet the rest of my, um, cohort for that, uh, summer, and everybody was just so friendly. Everybody also looked like deer in headlights. We were all just kind of like, "I don't know what to do." But, um, there were so many people who looked like people I knew, looked like people who I felt like I could get along with. Um, and so there wasn't that, that culture shock that probably would've happened if I had just shown up, uh, day one,

How Balfour Shaped Our Notre Dame

Calleen Jones 13:25

without being in Balfour, which I'm very, very grateful for

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 13:29

Yeah, I was listening to the first episode with Dean Ch- Dean Chamblee and, uh, Christy Green, former director of the program, and they were speaking to the original purpose, which was, you know, three pillars. Um, mentoring, academic support or preparation, um, I say support, right? Because already academically prepared, you were admitted. Um, and then community. And so I hear you speaking to both mentorship and community, um, but having community with students who are going through the same journey, a similar journey as you, um, is definitely a very supportive environment, uh, supportive cohort to do that in. Absolutely. you kinda touched on this a little bit, how do you then feel that the Balfour-Hutcheson program shaped your Notre Dame experience? Or impacted if shape is too strong of a word. How did it impact your experience?

J. Zane Stephens 14:27

I'll tell you, like, I'll, I'll start real quick. Um, you know, I went to a... I think I went to a okay high school. Like, we didn't have IB, the International Baccalaureate program. We had, like, one AP class, but I was able to take this, uh, college class while I was in high school due to the fact that DePaul had a connection to my high school. Okay, cool. So when I took that class, I was like, "Wait, all right, I, I can do college. Like, I feel like I'm prepared." And then when I got on campus and, you know, you get the preview of what you're gonna do the fall, right? you know, you're going through and you're like, "Okay, maybe a l- some gaps here, but hey, this is like anything else. If I take the information, sit down, study, retain it, understand it, I can do it." I think that's one of the biggest things Balfour offered. For me, it wasn't too much of the interpersonal or community things out the gate. It was, "Oh, man, my dad was in college at 16, and he had some difficulties he's facing his life with substance abuse. Am I gonna make it?" And once I got past those first couple, like, weeks and taking those classes, I was like, "Oh, I could do this." So it kinda gave me confidence that the next four years wouldn't be as hard as I thought they were, 'cause it was lonely. up... I didn't have, other than my friends from high school who went on to, like, Stanford and Georgetown and stuff, there was, like, four of us. I didn't have nobody to talk to at Notre Dame until I met the, you know, those Balfour folks and then, like, Frank and Crystal and Geraud. And then you start class, and anytime you're going through anything, you got your whole Balfour group,

Krystal Hardy Allen 16:03

Mm-hmm.

J. Zane Stephens 16:03

you know? So it, that, that's the thing, that's the thing that happened. So one hand, it was the academic piece, and then it was, like, the community

Krystal Hardy Allen 16:10

Mm-hmm. I'll piggyback on what Jeff said, and I say this because this is why I love us as a people. We are such a diverse community of people. Like, being of color and being Black in particular is not a monolith, right? Um, eh, I am from a state that, you know, traditionally in a lot of ways has been seen through the eyes of, like, Jim Crow racism, which is Alabama, but also is, is under-story told in terms of the greatness that has come from it, that has kinda put us on a pathway towards, like, racial freedoms as well. And w- And coming from Alabama, I was well prepared from, like, a really rigorous college preparatory residential high school for college. Notre Dame was academically easy for me because in the 10th to 12th grade I was living in a dorm already. I had a residential advisor. Every teacher from that high school had to have a PhD to teach at that high school, and so my trajectory was really different academically. And you had to have at least a 23 to 25 on the ACT to get admitted to that high school, right? And so when I went, the academic part was, was different for me, and it was the social part that I, that I, that I longed for, that I got from Balfour. Because number one, um, my faith is just everything to me, and it was even as a young person. So I needed to know that because I wasn't Catholic and I was coming into a Catholic university, that I could also meet people who looked like me, who also believed in God and, and were not Catholic too, to help me feel at home and a sense of belonging. And I found that in Balfour. I was like, "Oh, there are other people, and there are other Black people and brown people," and they grew up Baptist and Pentecostal and non-denominational and all that, and that felt like home for me. I think another thing was, um, the South as well. I wanna say this regionally because my, my s- sisterhood and brotherhood was national through Balfour, but there was something to be said about when you are the marginalized of the marginalized, right? So it's one thing, for instance, to be Black, but to be Black and dark-skinned is different lived experience in some places based on colorism, right? But to be at Notre Dame and Black and from the South and from a rural community, that's also a different landscape of people having stereotypes about what you're gonna be like, um, and the jokes and all the kinda things that come from that. And so it was, it was refreshing for me to meet other Black kids who were from the South who were also in there, and I, and I felt that at Balfour. And last thing I'll say is just meeting, um, people who were confident in who they were. Like, I told my folks about Frank and about Jeriz and Jeff and Jason and all of these different people. Monique, rest in peace, one of our classmates. You know, and, and, and, and that made my mom feel a sense of peace that her baby Was with other people who were looking out for her,

Frank Duerson 19:14

Thank you

Krystal Hardy Allen 19:14

you know? And, and to Colleen's point earlier, that means a lot when you're sending your child very far away, when you send your child anywhere, but especially when my family, um, made under $40,000 combined income even back then, and so they couldn't, like, buy a ticket to come... The, the... They came to campus, and that was a thing, that they saved up money to make a 15-hour drive, not even a flight, to come see me. So those were the things that I got from Balfour, a sense of community, sense of belonging, and just confirmation and, like, you belong here. 'Cause you can be Black amongst Black people and still not feel like you belong

Frank Duerson 19:53

Mm-hmm. That's what I was kind of afraid of. I'm sorry. You know, I would

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 19:56

um, I was just gonna ask Crystal, so did you move yourself up as a freshman?

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:02

I pretty much did. Yeah. Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 20:04

too. No p- nobody came with me, so I

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:05

Yep. A-

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 20:06

Yeah

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:07

And, and, and that part, and that's why I feel like there are so many different intersectional lived experiences of like what is it like to go to Notre Dame, but at least you got your cousin, your aunt, somebody with you versus like you're going to another place in the US by yourself is like really scary, you know? Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 20:27

Sorry, Frank.

Frank Duerson 20:29

no, I'm-- That, that was great 'cause I honestly, it's, it's funny that from, from Balfour, it's like we've had this communal aspect just from the jump. Soon as we met each other, we just knew we was gonna cover each other and we was getting out of here, you know. We was

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:39

Mm-hmm

Frank Duerson 20:39

take our four years here and we was gonna protect each other, and that's exactly what we did.

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:43

Yep

Frank Duerson 20:44

kinda ironic, like, you know, as I've left Notre Dame, it's like I've become less, I guess less shielded. And, you know, as you kinda, you know, go through things and advance through things,

Krystal Hardy Allen 20:53

Yeah

Frank Duerson 20:54

you're like the only one there. And I do-- I, I miss that. I miss having that communal bond that we just, we had it from like day one, man. It was like as soon as we got on campus, we started meeting each other, started joking with each other. We just knew that these were our people and were gonna do this together. And, and those four years, you know, had a lot, presented a lot of challenges, but it presented a lot of, uh, you know, wins as well, you know? And, and, but like I said, this, this built a lifetime bond that we still exercise to this day, like unquestionably so. I really miss that, man. I really do. I miss that because, you know, now you feel like you're just out here naked by yourself and it's kinda like the reverse. Really, it is. Like, it's like the reverse now. Like when I used to have this-- I knew I had a tribe that I can go back to. If I had a long day or a hard day, I can go in and just kinda let it out. I don't have to explain myself in 50,000 different ways. I can just say something the first time and they get it. And then, you know, you keep graduating and you keep progressing, you keep progressing and you're the only one in the room. You're like, "Man, I'm so sick of this shit. about to kill somebody." But but, but, but I, I, I, um, but to what Crystal was saying, it's kinda ironic that I didn't feel that when I got to campus 'cause I, you know, I'm from Indianapolis, so it was a two-and-a-half-hour drive for us. So Mom, Dad, cousins, brother, sister, everybody dropped me off. Matter of fact, it was too many people there, you know? But, but you know, um, I hoped that we were, you know, that that South place would be the land, you know, when you went up there by yourself. But, you know, but my mind from day one when I got there was like, "This, this is my family, this is the community, and we gonna do this together." And, and, and we did that. So eternally grateful to God

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 22:25

Jeff Kayleen, in terms of

Calleen Jones 22:28

Um, so

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 22:29

impacted your Notre Dame experience?

Calleen Jones 22:33

I think for me, I wanna speak more to the, the academic piece. freshman year for me was absolutely rough. Um, I started out pre-med 'cause I

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 22:45

Say less. No,

Calleen Jones 22:46

of hearts that

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 22:46

I'm joking

Calleen Jones 22:46

I wanted to be a pediatrician, and that's what I had wanted to be since I was seven years old, and I was going to school to be a doctor. And Christy Fleming Green said, "Hey, I think you might wanna try something else." And I did not listen to her at all. How dare you tell me what I can and can't do. You don't know me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Should've listened. Um, and I did, you know, calculus, had to drop calculus, went on to different calculus, uh, which honestly was better for me because there were other Balfour students, um, my class there to support me, study together. Um, I just remember two things. One, talking to, um, Kevin Phipps, was my, uh, peer, uh, mentor in first year studies. I missed three with him. And the fourth appointment, I finally made it, um, and he started talking to me about my classes, and I just started crying hysterically. And he was like, "Whoa. Wait." so then he started talking to me about my humanities and my, uh, s- uh, history and English, and so tears dried up, rant time about that. Um, he asked me about my social relationships, all about Balfour and all of my friends and had a good experience there. Um, and by the end of my freshman year, I remember going to talk to Mr. Tardy. Um, he looked at me and he said, "Well, you know, there's freshwater fish there's saltwater fish. You can't take a freshwater fish and put them into a saltwater pond and expect them to survive. put a saltwater fish into a freshwater pond and expect them to survive. So you just kinda have to figure out where you fit in. Do you feel like-" The sciences and maths and calculus and things like that is where you fit in, do you like something else? 'Cause it's okay to like something else. And I was like, "Okay. All right." Um, and then that's when I decided to switch my major to sociology, and it was such a better fit for me. Um, but that very simple conversation I had with Mr. Charity that one day just sh- completely shifted everything that I wanted to do

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 25:49

so let me ask, the Balfour program, you know, what might you have not done or experienced had you not participated Balfour-Hesed program?

Calleen Jones 26:02

I would have never gone abroad.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 26:03

Really?

Calleen Jones 26:04

gone to see a different country,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 26:07

Where did you go?

Calleen Jones 26:08

'cause they helped. I went to London, I did the summer program, um, my junior year go- junior year going into senior year. Um, I, I was jealous because everybody else was going abroad and I really wanted to go. Um, and they helped pay for my summer classes, 'cause otherwise I, I don't think I would've ever experienced saying that I, I got to go to London and I got to see Paris 100%.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 26:38

And you know, I don't know if you s- Did you ever say where home was from? I know you mentioned tr- you know, coming from a far place to come to Notre Dame, but where was, where was home at the time?

Calleen Jones 26:49

New Orleans.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 26:50

Okay, so from New Orleans. Okay. So from

Calleen Jones 26:52

New Orleans

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 26:54

New Orleans to Indiana to then London. How did your mom feel about that? Or by

Frank Duerson 27:00

Exactly.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 27:00

she, did she say, "Okay, you did okay at Notre Dame. I'm, I'm okay now"?

Calleen Jones 27:07

So that is probably a different story about Notre Dame that y'all probably or may not wanna hear. Most of y'all already know. Um, my mama passed away, my sophomore

Krystal Hardy Allen 27:21

Yep

Calleen Jones 27:22

of college. and So first semester my sophomore year was during Hurricane Katrina. Um, I had been at school for like a week, um, and then Katrina hit and, you know, devastated so many parts of the, um, Southeast. And so, um, I, between Balfour giving me money, um, Mary Nucoroni from, uh, financial aid, 'cause I, I, I remember going to her and I said, "Hey, to go home because I can't afford to stay here. I don't have any money. I don't have any..." mama is, uh, we lost our home. Um, don't have, we don't have the finances to keep me here. My mom said I have to come home And she, and it was like, "Oh, absolutely not. No, you don't need to go." And so she just found for me. And then Dr. Lucero was like, "Hey, here's some..." I w- I got a $500 check, and I was like, "Oh, God. I'm gonna go buy my mama and my sister underwear and, uh, toiletries," because they didn't have any. and I remember my mama telling me, she was like, "Um, Kelly, no, that money is for you." And I said, "I'm here. I am fine." I, said, "The- these people, uh, s- they are providing..." I said, "I have meals, I have shelter, I have all my clothing. I don't need anything. But I can give this money, and I can either buy you things and ship it, or just take the money, but I need you to have it." And I remember going around to the other Balfour students who had been affected that I been in contact with, and I was like, "Hey, you better go tell Balfour that you're from Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana." Said, "Let them know, that you are in dire straits as well, because they are, they are helping us." Um, and so some of my other went to go help, um, get help from, from Balfour too. And then second semester that year, um, again, I had been at school for about a week, then my mom, uh, my mama, found out my mama passed away. My sister had gone to check on her 'cause we couldn't get ahold of her, um, and she had found her deceased, in her apartment. And then, um, I remember coming back from church, and I had 17 missed calls. Um, and so when I finally got to speak to my sister, um, you know, hysterical, screaming, crying, um- Sideria Doria lived in the dorm with me. They were also Balfour, um The girl who was Sediria's roommate at the time knew I was friends with them. Um, she wasn't a part of Balfour. Um, she was a, a white student, but she knew that we had a very close bond, and she knew that Sediria wasn't in the room, and she didn't know where Sediria was, so she ran downstairs to go get Daria, because she knew Daria and I were very close. Um, and I remember Daria running in and just holding me, crying with me, trying to support me in that moment. And honestly, as and traumatizing awful that experience was, um, two things stick out. that I had that support system at school, and two, other people knew that I had-- like, what, who my support system was, that we were that close, um, to go and find my support to help me from Balfour

Krystal Hardy Allen 32:06

Mm-hmm.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 32:09

Wow Thank you for

Krystal Hardy Allen 32:12

real.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 32:13

I didn't realize that that question was gonna, you know, um, there, but that I think speaks to the support you got from the Balfour Program

Frank Duerson 32:25

Well,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 32:27

Absolutely

Frank Duerson 32:28

mean, I, I, I will have to say to answer that question, be if I did not meet Crystal, I would've never went into Teach For America. So it's just like the power of the connection and the student Balfour. not thinking about being a teacher. I don't care about being a teacher. I have no idea what the Teach For America program is. You know, I don't realize it's prestigious, you know, whatever. I don't care nothing about it, you know what I mean? I'm just like, I'm trying to go to med school, and that's my focus. And I keep getting this call from a recruiter, and it's like, "Hey, man, several of your peers keep, you know, dropping your name, and one of them is Crystal Hardy." like, won't Crystal ask me first before, before sharing my name?" But, but honestly, like, that was one of the greatest things I've ever done, and I wouldn't have never had the opportunity to do it if I did not have that connection with Crystal from the Balfour program. And so to do that Teach For America down in Houston, I, I enjoyed it so much I stayed extra two years. And I, I can brag on this one. Uh, I was Jalen Hurts', uh, middle school quarter... I mean, I was his, I was his coach, so I taught him how to do the read option and how to throw the ball. So before

Krystal Hardy Allen 33:30

New Barrel

Frank Duerson 33:32

uh, before he was winning Super Bowls, you know, uh, I

Krystal Hardy Allen 33:34

Yes

Frank Duerson 33:35

was his coach, you know? But that, I would have never have taken it to decorative if it wouldn't have been for Crystal. And just, you know, looking out just saying, "Hey, I got a guy I think y'all should look at," 'cause I wasn't even thinking about teaching. But that opened up a experience for me that even to this day, if I was going on interviews or anything, I would go back and reflect and talk about that experience. And

Activism, Bonds, and Clearing Up Myths

Frank Duerson 33:54

people are so intrigued by it, you know? So I can't thank you enough, Crystal. I really do.

Krystal Hardy Allen 33:58

No.

Frank Duerson 33:58

that 'cause I would've never done it without you

Krystal Hardy Allen 34:01

my gratitude is actually going to you too, and, and to, you know, like our Balfour circle for I- here's what I will say. My sense of racial identity and clarity came from my hometown of Selma, and, and really being the granddaughter of folks, of a lot of elders who are still alive today and back then who marched from Selma to Montgomery. And, and, you know, their activism helped me show up, even in a place like Notre Dame, saying, "This is not right. This part is racist. This is not okay, and I'm not down with it," right? I think what the Balfour community did for me was like, number one, give me an intimate community to have some deep existential questions, um, be engaged with, like the, the, the type of conversations we had. And Frank is one of those, uh, people where we used to butt heads, but when I say butt heads, I mean butt heads in a good way. Like Frank was... I was Dr. King, he was X. And that's what... That's what

Frank Duerson 35:05

One

Krystal Hardy Allen 35:05

we said. We was like, "Frank is Do-..."

Frank Duerson 35:06

right

Krystal Hardy Allen 35:07

mean, we would... And it would be these heated conversations, but it w- it was the type of conversations where there was never offense, but it pushed me to think, and it pushed him to think, and it pushed us quite similar to their lived experience. People don't talk enough about how King and X were actually aligned, especially at the time of both of their transitions from the earth, right? And so this idea that they were, they had more in common than different,

Frank Duerson 35:33

Mm-hmm.

Krystal Hardy Allen 35:34

I, I, I felt blessed because I got a more critical analysis of what is true allyship as a young person came out of conversations that I had with my brother Frank, right? Um, other people in the Balfour program, we founded the Black Student Union as a class based on our Balfour connection. So Jason, myself, Frank, um, J- you know, Jeraz, Jeff, all of us, we founded that. We founded BSU. Um, and we did it as a Balfour community because we lacked that type of institution at the time. E- everything we had was cultural and entertainment based, and we didn't have a group that centered Black intellectual dialogue, that talked about the Black agenda and what we needed, and we, and we created that. And the last thing I will say is that being a part of Balfour emboldened me to get in good trouble, if I were to quote the late great John Lewis, right? Um, when Tyrone Willingham was fired unjustly from Notre Dame, when Mama, Mama... Right. When Mama Chandra shakes her head,

Frank Duerson 36:44

boy. Whoo. Whoo

Krystal Hardy Allen 36:44

when, when, when we said, "This is not right, and we need to say something about it," it was, to be clear, right? Like people had their connection to it, but it was the Balfour Black students in particular that or- organized and the frank, right? To say, "Here's what we need to do, and we're getting yellow T-shirts, and they're gonna say this," right? And so I just wanna say that, like, the spirit of activism, right? I, I would've personally showed up different had it not been for the community of Balfour that helped me think and develop a critical racial analysis and the action to match it

J. Zane Stephens 37:22

I really quick, I know 'cause we went over on this. Um, everybody talking about, you know, Crystal, it's all connected to Crystal.

Frank Duerson 37:28

Yeah

J. Zane Stephens 37:28

Let's see. What might you have done, experienced had you not participated in

Frank Duerson 37:34

South Pole

J. Zane Stephens 37:35

Um, I never would've had Rev's life, you know? Just I never would've had that. I never would've had that Crystal and Jatan. We ain't gonna talk about that, but I never would've had

Krystal Hardy Allen 37:43

a hater, just answer the question. Just answer the question.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 37:47

Oh, God. So

J. Zane Stephens 37:47

had I

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 37:48

taking this the negative, you had a

Krystal Hardy Allen 37:50

Really? I was like,

J. Zane Stephens 37:50

thinking,

Krystal Hardy Allen 37:50

"What?"

J. Zane Stephens 37:51

had I never... I was squeaky clean. I was squeaky clean throughout Notre Dame. I'm like, "What is this re- what happened?" you know, you know,

Krystal Hardy Allen 37:58

You were awesome.

J. Zane Stephens 37:59

all good.

Krystal Hardy Allen 37:59

You you, know, you, um, you know, we've all grown. Def, you

J. Zane Stephens 38:03

all,

Krystal Hardy Allen 38:03

you did some becoming, you

J. Zane Stephens 38:05

we

Krystal Hardy Allen 38:06

through Val Four 'cause you, you,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 38:08

That

J. Zane Stephens 38:08

I love

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 38:09

is,

Krystal Hardy Allen 38:09

you,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 38:09

just say, 'cause everybody's not gonna get it, let's just say

J. Zane Stephens 38:13

Oh no, they weren't supposed to get it. We was doing a

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 38:14

learning, parietals and things of that nature, you know, that was a, a growth

J. Zane Stephens 38:18

think.

Krystal Hardy Allen 38:19

Uh-huh

J. Zane Stephens 38:21

we stole some bikes. No. Um,

Frank Duerson 38:23

They do that? They did that

J. Zane Stephens 38:25

That, that's, about it. I mean, I think anything I've done, I can't... don't have a, a real good answer for this one. Like I, Notre Dame was my Disney World, so I felt like other than having the community, that's the one thing that, you know, I may have not experienced. I would've been, um, just back out of water. It's just, you're one of... not a big school, but you're one of like thousands. But coming in with this almost little secret society of Balfour folks, it made you feel more confident. So I wouldn't have experienced that confidence, I would say

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 38:59

It was a secret society.

J. Zane Stephens 39:01

It felt like that. It felt like that. 'Cause everybody was

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:03

Was Balfour, they were,

Frank Duerson 39:05

Exactly, yeah

Krystal Hardy Allen 39:05

your valuable work

J. Zane Stephens 39:06

on campus and take

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:07

yeah

J. Zane Stephens 39:08

You know what I'm saying? So yeah.

Frank Duerson 39:10

How do y'all know each other already? Like how do y'all... We had that community already established. Yeah.

Krystal Hardy Allen 39:14

Yeah. Submerged

Calleen Jones 39:18

Lawrence. He was not a part of Balfour, but Lawrence was like, "Balfour only. Balfour only. Y'all keep talking about Balfour only." Me, I'm sorry that I got picked and you didn't. I don't know.

J. Zane Stephens 39:32

What we didn't realize at the time was Balfour was for the peoples like, "Well, you know, you might need some

Frank Duerson 39:37

Yeah, well, yeah, I didn't know what, what was the criteria for this election? 'Cause I, I'm glad it happened, but you know, it was

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:42

I think that's true because as Crystal just shared with you, you know, academically that

Frank Duerson 39:47

Yeah, she was it.

Krystal Hardy Allen 39:48

Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:48

first generation...

Krystal Hardy Allen 39:50

were like 28, 29? Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:52

it was many different. First

Krystal Hardy Allen 39:53

Actors. Mm-hmm.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 39:55

um, or maybe if you, you know, m- need some, a little academic support, but you had the strong engagement and impact.

J. Zane Stephens 40:04

Immersion

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:04

yeah, immersion support. Um, yeah, but it, it wasn't a remedial program by

Frank Duerson 40:10

Yeah.

J. Zane Stephens 40:11

yeah

Frank Duerson 40:11

Yeah. That's why

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:13

get that

Frank Duerson 40:13

I was glad to-- I was, I was glad to be selected 'cause I couldn't imagine showing up August, day fir- you know, day one, not knowing anybody. I was

Krystal Hardy Allen 40:20

Yeah.

Frank Duerson 40:20

so you know, you're on South Forest so you're really away from everything. If I didn't have that connection already, like I don't think I would've been able to transition as seamless as I did, so I'm glad I was selected

Krystal Hardy Allen 40:30

Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:30

to s-

J. Zane Stephens 40:31

We looked into the future

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:32

it looks as though he joined here. I would have to say too, just to clarify, everybody on here has degrees.

Krystal Hardy Allen 40:40

Uh-huh

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:40

So

J. Zane Stephens 40:41

Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:42

so you did it once and then you did it again, right? So y- there was no mistake, right? There was no mistake

Frank Duerson 40:49

Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 40:50

But I would say, you know, yes, definitely having the support of Balfour definitely helped me pursue additional, um, education as well

Frank Duerson 40:57

And

Krystal Hardy Allen 40:58

Yep

Calleen Jones 40:59

Can I just say as an aside that I didn't know where Notre Dame was when I applied? Everybody thought that I was going to DC Yep. And I had to

Frank Duerson 41:12

And you're not the only one. I grew up in the state and I didn't know, know it was a state of Indiana and I grew up in Indiana. Yeah, I promise you. I'm not, I can't make it up. I probably, I grew up in Indiana. I was like, "Okay, this must be in California." You know, it must be like down in Florida. You gotta be in, like you said, DC, New York. That's where I thought it was.

Krystal Hardy Allen 41:32

Mm-hmm.

Frank Duerson 41:32

the entire time... 'Cause it was like a separation between like Notre Dame and, you know, where I grew up. Y- you know, it was like two different worlds. And so I

Krystal Hardy Allen 41:40

Oh real

Frank Duerson 41:40

there, but I just never thought that it was like, you know, in the northern part of the state I grew up in. So when it was time to apply, I was like, "Oh, it's right here in the state."

Krystal Hardy Allen 41:48

Mm-hmm.

J. Zane Stephens 41:49

I just, I, I, I was just fighting to get back there. 'Cause junior year of high school, I was lucky enough to be able to do this program called Notre Dame Vision. like this, you know, Catholic kinda retreat for a week at Notre Dame, and it was my first time staying on a college campus. I was like, "All I gotta do is do good in school?

Graduation and the Road Since

J. Zane Stephens 42:09

Okay. I gotta get back here. I gotta get back here." So yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 42:14

So let me ask then, what's your most memorable moment at Notre Dame, whether it was in the Balfour Program or Notre Dame overall?

J. Zane Stephens 42:27

Akon. I ain't gonna lie. Two. I'ma throw it out right now. I'ma throw it right now. Two for me, and it's all situated in the same space of me being the entertainer. Man, I went from winning these rap contests in high school to being able to open up Akon and this, like, s- relatively famous band at the time, Cake. But, like, all my f- my closest friends from high school came up. I had Frank, I had Jeraz. Chris, I don't know if you came. But was, uh The Joyce, I forgot where it was. And h- Akon was huge back then, and it was the whole student body. It was called The Show. And I got to open up

Krystal Hardy Allen 43:08

Yeah

J. Zane Stephens 43:08

him my sophomore year. That was so dope. And then that, that was followed by me, um, Legends being finished, and then me being the first student to have his own concert there. And, like, the line was, like, wrapped around the corner. My opener, who was my barber/the first person that kinda taught me how to record music, he, you know, he kinda went overboard on his opening act and people was leaving. But I saved it. I saved it, and it was cool, man. That was so cool, like, the community. My grandma came up for the Akon thing. It was just like, that was That's my most, that's my most memorable, time at Notre Dame

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 43:42

Wow

Frank Duerson 43:43

No doubt.

Krystal Hardy Allen 43:44

I would have to say, uh, two, uh, quick things. One was actually graduation. Um, you know, there, there's something about a moment hitting you, um, that, like, really solidifies it. Like, wow, like, we really have navigated four years through this institution. Like, we really made it. And I think putting on that cap and gown, and putting on the, the African American, like, stole that we had, um, and being able to just get in that line, um, and also seeing your folks afterwards, that I will never forget that moment. It, I, it, I... For me, it felt like I could conquer anything. I graduated from Notre Dame, I can go anywhere, I can do anything, and I can compete, and I can go in any room and not question myself, right? I think a second moment for me actually was when, um, Chandra Johnson shaved her head in pro- in protest to, um, uh, Tyrone Willingham's, uh, firing, but also a lot of things that were happening at that moment. And so there was a moment in time where I felt this intersection of faith and social justice, and this idea that, like, you need to not be ever a passive observer of what happens in the world, but you need to question, what am I gonna do about it? And even if our answer to that question is really different, I just appreciated what she symbolized in doing because I knew that it was a symbol of discomfort for a lot of people around her, for her to do that at Notre Dame as a Black woman.

Frank Duerson 45:25

I think I'll say the same thing. I, I think, I think everybody knew where they were when the first time they seen, you know, Dr. Johnson with

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:30

Mm-hmm

Frank Duerson 45:30

shaved. It was the most shocking thing in

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:33

Yep.

Frank Duerson 45:33

you know?

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:34

Yep.

Frank Duerson 45:35

it was like, man, she is serious about this. So I don't know if I can tie it to one moment, one is I remember the night that we founded the Be About Change committee when T- the Tyrone Hill was fired, which eventually became the Black Student Union.

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:48

Yes.

Frank Duerson 45:48

a lot of work. But I remember being there that night when we

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:52

Yep

Frank Duerson 45:53

we learned how to strategize. It was

Krystal Hardy Allen 45:55

Yes

Frank Duerson 45:55

mad, but it's like, how are you guys gonna place eternity into action? And that was, like, the first time that I had to, you know, really sit amongst people and we had to do that and, and do that at a young age too. Like, we was taking on a whole administration,

Krystal Hardy Allen 46:07

Yes.

Frank Duerson 46:08

a

Krystal Hardy Allen 46:08

Yeah.

Frank Duerson 46:09

Notre Dame administration as, as first year, you know, students. And, but we had to come up with a plan. We had to come up with what our objectives were, come up with a strategy how we was gonna utilize it w- with a bunch of group of people that didn't really have a lot of power,

Krystal Hardy Allen 46:21

Yes

Frank Duerson 46:21

then from that meeting and from that room, we turned and created something that still lives on to this day. So that was, like, an impactful day. Like Crystal said, graduation, of course, that was, like, one of the most joyous days ever. But that was, like,

Calleen Jones 46:33

Maybe

Frank Duerson 46:33

of the first. You know, high school you just know you're supposed to get through it, but, but, but everybody's not guaranteed, you know, to go to college, you know? And then, and then, and then, you know, you don't wanna be that person that takes f- five years, six years, seven years. The fact that we got through in four years

Krystal Hardy Allen 46:47

Yep

Frank Duerson 46:47

know, a-

J. Zane Stephens 46:48

Mm-hmm.

Frank Duerson 46:48

and our family was able to celebrate, that was, it, it was

Calleen Jones 46:51

why

Frank Duerson 46:51

that was a, that was a historic moment in my life, you know? So I, I would say graduation and then that night that we created Be About Change committee. And then also too, like you said, when we seen Dr. Johnson with her head shaved for the first time and she said, "I would no longer be ignored," I was like,

Krystal Hardy Allen 47:05

Mm-hmm.

Frank Duerson 47:06

a pretty impactful, woman

Krystal Hardy Allen 47:08

Mm-hmm.

J. Zane Stephens 47:11

Don't forget about the tour we went on too. I forgot about that.

Frank Duerson 47:13

Oh yeah, he gave me about two of them. And then, then also,

J. Zane Stephens 47:15

I

Frank Duerson 47:16

but on a lighter note, on a lighter note though, 'cause we did a lot of things though. So at the time that we was there, Legends really wasn't popping. so Jeff had the bright idea to say like, "I'm gonna take my music and I'm gonna have concerts here." Then, you know, we started, I started DJing there, and then like we turned... And like, yeah, that, that turned into like that was, we created our own social, you know, I guess, atmosphere. And so that was one thing I was kinda proud of, that we, we seen the problem and a solution for it. And I feel like that structure, that, that's kind of how I've kinda led my life, and I feel like those skills were honed, you know, during those four years at, at Notre Dame

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 47:56

A lot of,

Frank Duerson 47:56

How you doing,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 47:57

these years.

Frank Duerson 47:58

nigga?

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 47:58

I'm,

Krystal Hardy Allen 47:58

Ja.

Frank Duerson 47:58

No, hey, bro

Leadership and Why Balfour Matters

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 47:59

me, I'm

Krystal Hardy Allen 47:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 48:01

lot. We, I, I, I forget. Wow. So in, in that, that vein of, you know, leadership and service, what does leadership and service mean to you today, and how do you em- continue to embody these, um, qualities in your life?

J. Zane Stephens 48:20

Filling the gap. That's what it means to me, just filling the gap. Like, I just think about the people who down to me to give me some game, um, and all they ever said was pay it forward. And so anytime, you know, whether it was in law school when I was, like, mentoring kids around St. Louis high schools or when I got back to Chicago when I started practicing and I was a part of different groups, my whole... Like, my whole thesis was I feel like if socioeconomically disadvantaged folks, if they were aware of the opportunities that stood outside of this subculture that we often live in, if they, if they were aware, they would have something to strive for and to work for. I always love to, like, show up to different, like, high schools and different conferences just to say, "Hey, I literally was right where you are. Actually, uh, my situation was probably worse and, like, look what I was able to do. You could do it too. How do I know? 'Cause I did it. Let me tell you what's out here. Let me tell you the type of jobs you can have, the type of careers, the type of place you can travel to. Um, it's all out here if you want it," right? I mean, that's the biggest thing to me. So just filling in, filling in a gap and making people aware of the opportunities. Now, nowadays, you got TikTok, you got, like, everything. the information is a little more available, still, like, the gap is important to me

Krystal Hardy Allen 49:53

Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 49:54

point of saying that there is a, um, article, I'm not sure if y'all seen it, that just went everywhere, went viral this week about the socioeconomic factors are becoming biologically embedded in children's brains. So even with this information, right, there's an impact of socioeconomic factors that you really do need to be able to see it, right, to achieve it. It, it's, it's really necessary, so

J. Zane Stephens 50:19

No, you ain't

Krystal Hardy Allen 50:19

Yeah

J. Zane Stephens 50:20

my nephew f- we, we was going on Thanksgiving. This is real quick. Thanksgiving, like maybe my third year as an attorney. I was ab- I was buying a bunch of food, and I had it in a grocery cart. My nephew looked at me like, "Who gonna pay for this?" And I'm like, "Hey, nephew," like, "come on, man. Your unc- I made it. Let me just show you what," you know. But go ahead.

Frank Duerson 50:40

So we good now. We good

J. Zane Stephens 50:42

Good

Krystal Hardy Allen 50:44

So funny. I'll, I'll, um, chime in, um, building on what Jeff shared and say that, like, one way that that shows up is just a commitment to building community and affinity. You know? So whatever the space looks like, whether it's professional or personal, it's, it's trying to create structures where people can connect and share knowledge and best practices, and there's not hoarding, especially in business and entrepreneurship, right? When you think about the political climate we live in, the economic climate we live in, um, it is rare to survive in business after one year, let alone two years, five years, 10 years. And so when you think about the need for capital, um, and not ga- gatekeeping what it means to have longevity in business, especially as Black-owned, um, businesses, um, it's been important to say, "How are you pouring into startup entrepreneurs?" Right? "And when you get access to opportunities, how are you sharing it?" is one of the reasons why I started a consultant network within our firm. And so there are 20 other consultants of color that we regularly pass opportunities to, that I regularly vend and procure with on purpose to say, "As you're building your firms, we're gonna get this together. We're gonna make money together, and we're gonna make impact in the world together," right? And, and really helping them understand, how do you build a business that is sustainable? Um, I think a second, um, thing that shows up for me is just the need to give back in a meaningful way to my family and to people around me. It took seven years to do it, but I saved funds year after year to purchase my parents a home and make them first-time homeowners. You know? And, and that meant a lot to do liquid and to ensure they had no mortgage to their name, right? And so when I think about that, for me, like, success is not about, like, the revenue and the, uh, clout and all of these things, as opposed to, like, the impact. How many lives are you impacting, and how do you define that around what success truly is? And I think being in a place like Notre Dame helped feed that into me even more, right? It was one thing to grow up the way I grew up, and it was like, "You gotta look out for each other. You gotta give back." And then being raised in the church, it's like, "This is what you're supposed to be doing." But Notre Dame was a place, too, where it's like faith and doing what's right and social justice and intellectual rigor, all that stuff goes together. So being great is not just being successful on paper, it's how you really are making the world a, a richer and a better place, you know? Um, and so I try to be conscious of that, of just, like, using whatever privilege I build to position that for social good I do think I can credit Balfour for this because we weren't... You know, I've spoken a lot in this conversation around, like, my identity as an African American, but Balfour was a racially diverse group, and we built connections all across, like racial and ethnic, you know, identity. But I will say that I developed a deeper understanding of the intersectional needs of other communities, particularly brown communities, being a part of the Balfour program because of the proximity, right? So there are some things that I didn't necessarily understand about indigenous populations had it not been for, um, Lakota, right? Uh, it... There were things that I didn't understand about the Latino community and experience had it not been for Stephanie, right? Like, there are just different people that, um, I began to see the solidarity, the need for solidarity, but to understand their, like, histories of oppression, and I don't think that would've exclusively come from my coursework alone. Like,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 54:37

I

Krystal Hardy Allen 54:38

I, got it in that space, but some of it was just, like, even more informal and deep in those dorm conversations and those Balfour convenings where I'm like, "That's real." And let me also say, I also could understand still the throughline of anti-Blackness as well. It was the both/and that can still con- exist within other communities of color

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 55:00

Mm-hmm. Does anyone wanna answer the question about leadership and service? I can say it again

Frank Duerson (2) 55:07

Um, I, I did want to take a, yeah, I wanted to answer that, address that question. Um, I mean, I feel like leadership and service is everything, you know, especially for us moving forward in the way we forge our career. that's, kind of why I made the conscious decision to, you know, start our own independent practice as opposed to join some other, you know, corporation. But I think it is, it is important that we show up in spaces to where we can be, I guess, that representation, but also to, I guess, an example of what could be and the possibilities that are still out here, given this political climate. I, I feel like we, we all have a responsibility, like Crystal said, you know, knowing where we come from and the fact that, you know, the, the shoulders that we stand upon to be where we at, it's like we just ingrained. We got this onset to, you know, duty and responsibility to community. And so I know I've had some challenges, especially throughout my, you know, professional career in, in choosing to show up as my authentic self, and it's like I'm gonna keep doing it time after time after time after time until this becomes the standard of professionalism so that I don't have to change my my cadence, my tone, my posture, whatever it is, to be quote unquote professional. And like, like, like you all said, we, we all got multiple terminal degrees, you know? Like I don't... If it's not professional, I don't know what is. So, and, and, but it, but again, you know, it's a struggle in doing that. You know, when you're the first one over the hill, you're gonna catch a lot of arrows, and you understand that. think that's a part of leadership is, you know, to contain- continue to be that pers- first person over the hill so that more and more people kind of come over. So I'm, I, I'm very intentional about, you know, all the career choices I make and move forward because

Jones (2) 56:42

ThinkND Salvadoran

Frank Duerson (2) 56:43

and that other people can gravitate towards to, you know, what my colleagues are doing. So that's the way I, that's the way I see leadership at this point.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 56:51

To whom much is given, much is required, right?

Krystal Hardy Allen 56:54

that part. So true

Frank Duerson (2) 56:56

True. It's definitely true

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 56:59

It's been 20 years since you participated in Balfour and, um, you know, now that your undergrad is behind you, graduate school is, and professional schools are you, maybe some, um, post-grad, you know, is near behind you, Frank, um, and years of life experience, why is it important that Balfour Hebrew program continues for another 20 years? I thought to ask this question, is it? Is it still needed or is it not? But I, I think we all really... I already know what everyone on this call thinks, so I'm just gonna ask why are programs like this still needed in this day and time where many of them are, are disappearing

J. Zane Stephens 57:46

I like what Crystal said earlier about like, you know, it's really like it was an immersion sort of program. Um, if you think about it, we now have the tools, and I think between my class, like here, Frank is the only one with children, right? Yeah. So we now have the tools that it's time for our kids to do this or our nieces and nephews to do this, Ba- Balfour would be great for them, but we got it, right? We can give them like the rules of the road, the cheat sheets. but it's only because we went through a program like that that ultimately helped us be better prepared for success that we was able to make it to this point. For every one of us, like, sad, but there's exponentially more who are not ready, Who, who could maybe a little extra push to make sure that they don't fall into a lot of the traps that, um, most unprepared folks will fall into. And so I think that, from a perspective of equity, from a perspective of just decency, um, as we do this journey called life together, like this are vital, right? vital. If you're showing up in school, in high school, and you're, you know, kicking butt on your grades, and you're doing your community services, and otherwise you are prepared to, um, you know, be successful in college, at least on paper. If you're doing that stuff, there's just a little something missing about like what... You know, my dad didn't-- not my dad, but like maybe my parents didn't go to college or, you know, they have no idea what college is like or what being on your own is like when nobody's telling you you gotta do your homework and just all this stuff. if there aren't those role models in the family, if they don't have a Frank, a Crystal, a Jetan, a Jeff, but all they have is themselves, where they treat school like their full-time job, which is like what I did, these programs are like, they're crazily vital to success. And that, you know, those who try to get rid of them are acting in bad faith. why wouldn't you wanna help?

Frank Duerson (2) 1:00:01

I ask that question like, as long as you have legacy admissions in places, then you should equally have places like this or, and spaces like this. 'Cause the whole thing is, are we trying to weed people out or are we just trying, are we trying to find the most qualified and the people that can actually do the job? And there's a lot of people that get taken out the race before they even get started because they don't even know the rules of the game. And it's not their fault, not that they don't have the aptitude for it, it's just that there are unspoken rules that if you're not privy to it, you don't realize you, you're wrong... You're running the wrong race until somebody pulls your coattail and say, "No, this is actually how you get it done." so that's my, that's always my stance on it. I mean, I know equity is a hard thing for people to swallow, but you know, but they don't wanna see, like, it's in other forms as well. Like when I remember going through the application of Notre Dame and they asked on there, like, "Do you have a family member? Has anybody in your family ever graduated from here?" You know, you had to check yes or no button. You know, I had to check the no button. But at the time I was wondering, why are they asking that question? It doesn't make any sense, 'cause I'm thinking it's more so about you looking at my grades, you're looking at my test scores, you know me. understood what that one little line meant, you know? So as long as they continue that line on that, on that application, definitely gotta have programs like this because, I mean, I'm, I'm honest. I had improvement. We are improving. I can run the race, but however, I didn't have the tools to start the race. Like, somebody had to get me to the game and show me how it was done. So it ain't like I didn't have the aptitude,

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:01:18

Right

Frank Duerson (2) 1:01:19

needed the instructions 'cause I just never had the blueprint, you know?

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:01:22

Yep.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:01:23

gotta have programs like this

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:01:24

Yeah I'll build onto that and just say that, like, I think fundamentally we have to examine the desire to erase any type of supports and programs that really catapult, you know, students and families and people of color forward, juxtaposition to a country that has always created programming that has catapulted White people and populations forward. So we started talking about the New Deal, the GI Bill, the college advantages that Black people did not have that White people had from military backgrounds, and we started talking about the Homestead Act, like, the list is long. We've always had social support programs for housing, higher education, everything you can imagine in this country, um, to help people get social access. It only becomes problematic when the recipient of the program looks like us, right? And so it, it's a piece around saying, "If we're gonna keep the energy to give access, let's give it to everyone and not make it seem that communities of color, and especially Black people, are at a deficit because we need the programs." Because actually, everyone has benefited from social programming, right? We just want access to what everyone has always had access to from the beginning of time. Um, and so that's my piece, you know, on just, like, the equality piece and the equity piece. And the only other thing I will say, I think especially at institutions like Notre Dame, um- We need a balance of the African American student experience and the experience of students across the diaspora because that is, that is a different lived experience and there are a lot of traditional predominantly White institution or PWIs that are increasing the amount of students of color, but they are international students of color, and that is a different lived experience than being a Black American. And I think programs like the B4 program kinda keeps that alive to say, "No, we're gonna provide programming where we keep both lived experiences center to what we call the Black experience at Notre Dame." Um, and, and, and I say that because I, I think we have to just, like, name the reality that the lived experience of being able to say that there is no racism and there is no need for Black programming can also come from a student who does not have a Black American experience.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:04:16

Yeah.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:04:16

And so, you

J. Zane Stephens 1:04:17

That

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:04:18

think that's a strategic play in being able to say, "Well, how do you keep an intersectional composition of Black students so that we are not under the auspice of being colorblind as an institution?"

J. Zane Stephens 1:04:34

You know? Yeah. Hey, y'all, Black people are lazy and they're looking for handouts. Wait, what's this? Black people successful, y'all. What, what we gonna do about this? It's literally it's li-

Frank Duerson (2) 1:04:46

it off.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:04:47

Yeah. And, and, and I'm

J. Zane Stephens 1:04:48

It was a

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:04:49

but you know what I mean, it, it also applies to, to, to Brown populations too. Like, to be Mexican American in the States is not the same thing as coming from a highly affluent, um, family in Spain and coming to Notre Dame, right? And so I just think there's something to be said about, like, how do we keep that mixture alive? And I think programs like VALFOR make sure that students like us have a seat at the table

Frank Duerson (2) 1:05:15

Mm-hmm.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:17

And we all inhabit this

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:19

Yes,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:19

it

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:20

we

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:20

us, right,

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:21

need everybody. We need everybody. Yeah

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:23

think of how we can all be well and not just some of us be well. Otherwise, y- y- we all gonna live in fear, right?

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:29

Yes

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:30

the have-nots are gonna be trying to get what the haves

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:33

Yes

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:34

why not just let us all be

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:35

Yeah, that's right. That's right

Frank Duerson (2) 1:05:37

Well,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:38

Yeah.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:05:38

a seat.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:40

We don't need a seat. Yes,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:05:40

Y-

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:05:41

yes, yes. And it doesn't mean that, um, Jutana will say this, it doesn't mean that we don't want the affluent Spanish experience alongside the Mexican American experience and, like, the wealthy African experience with, like, the South, you know, the Southeastern Black person who's first genera- We need actually all of that because we are also not a monolith. And kids need to also see that you can be Black and come from wealth. To be Black does not mean you come from poverty automatically, right? So you take someone like Ariane, you know what I mean? Or like our, our classmates who are Black Notre Dame students whose parents were also Black donors. We need that experience told along with our experiences too

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:28

We can say that now. Do you believe that?

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:31

Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:06:31

Miért nem?

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:32

And we have class, we have

J. Zane Stephens 1:06:33

Right. I, I, I

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:34

peers. We have peers who can say that

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:35

cra-

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:36

then.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:36

crazy,

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:37

peers that can say that then. Yeah. Yeah

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:41

Wow. Wow. that's crazy. Like, to think right where we started, like, you know, just dreaming, you know, you have an idea when you walk in, like, "I wanna be X, Y, and Z," but to then actually to do it, man,

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:51

Yeah. Amen

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:52

that's surreal. I ne- You

J. Zane Stephens 1:06:53

Thurston Hall. Thurston Hall coming up.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:06:56

I know that's right.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:06:58

It gonna be a Steve as Allen the test one too, man.

J. Zane Stephens 1:07:03

Hold on now. Stevens Allen Hardy. Hardy Allen.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:07:08

So I know we could talk for-

Advice and Campus Must-Dos

J. Zane Stephens 1:07:13

Party at

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:07:14

I know we could talk forever, but we don't have the time to talk forever. But we do have a couple more questions that we wanted to get to, and it's, uh, you know, the next question is really thinking about the current Balfour scholars at Notre Dame. What of advice would you give to those students?

J. Zane Stephens 1:07:38

This in almost every college or every, um, essay I had to write for college or, uh, law school, like when I was trying to get accepted somewhere, so like the application. I think it was... Um, look, look, I don't be like reading for fun like that. I gotta keep it real. With the law, it's just too much reading. But I think it was Rumi or it was somebody, and I found it in high school, and it said, "It is better to light a candle rather than curse the darkness." And I would say that. You can look around, you can be in all types of chaos. Your family can be in chaos, your finances can be in chaos. if you look to the positive, it's... Power of positive thinking and all of that. If you really train your brain to look for the positive outcome in a situation of misery, it just propels, prepares you-- propels you to a different level. I got to a point where I was like, "I don't know if this is a simulation, but I can create my own reality." It's the craziest thing. You talk about somebody... I don't gotta go through my whole life, but somebody who's been shot at before. Like, and you get to Notre Dame, like, and no offense, and you don't play no sports, it's like, "How many of y'all been shot at before?" Well, I have. And then you go from that to being in a boardroom with like, uh, your law firm partners discussing like a Blackstone deal. You know what I'm saying? A private equity finance deal. It's, it's literally crazy. Sometimes I'll be at the crib like, "No, what the hmm?" I'm like, "What is going on?" know what I'm saying? So you really can create the life you want, you just gotta think positively about it. Light that candle. Don't curse the darkness that you sit in. You really can do it

Frank Duerson (2) 1:09:19

Yes

Jones (2) 1:09:22

Um, I think for me, I would wanna let people know that they do everything. Um, and I know this, this is gonna sound probably terrible, but Notre Dame has a lot of money. and you should take advantage of that to

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:09:39

A lot of bread. A lot

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:09:41

Well, that's wonderful. What do you mean? I love that.

Jones (2) 1:09:44

that you wanna experience, everything that you wanna experience. Never... They have, they have funds for everything. They had a fund-- I wanted to buy football tickets, and they said, "Oh, you can use this fund because that's something that we consider as part of the Not- a key part of the Notre Dame experience, so we want you to be able to do that." I wanted a class ring. I said, "Well..."

J. Zane Stephens 1:10:10

Rectorphone

Jones (2) 1:10:11

have ring, they have ring funds, not even Recta funds, ring funds. had a Recta fund. Just ask. I got a comp- I got a laptop because I couldn't afford one. all you had to do is just say the thing that you needed, and it would borderline appear. So I don't think there's ever really gonna be an- another experience like that in life where you can just ask and people will say, "Oh, yes. Why not? We'll-- Let's see what we can do." So just ask. Experience everything, do everything while it's not your money.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:10:59

A- and that's something that, you know, as first generation, you know, under-resourced students, oftentimes you don't know. You don't have the muscle to do. You don't know how to advocate. You don't know how to ask the question. You feel like you're gonna be othered or you're gonna be looked at as,

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:11:13

Yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:11:13

negatively. But, you know, this is a time that you have so much at your disposal. U- use it you don't know

Frank Duerson (2) 1:11:25

Cool.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:11:26

it's going to enable you to be able to do, what connection you're gonna be able to make. You know, it, it You just use it. Y- there's, there's no time to be shy, no time to be ashamed. This is, this is your time, so

Jones (2) 1:11:38

patients, I said, "Listen, the first, the worst thing they can tell you is no, and you're not gonna be in any different of a situation. But they could say yes, and it could completely change your situation

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:11:51

Hmm So good

Frank Duerson (2) 1:11:54

It's good to hear, brother. Man, if, if I had to talk to t- if I had to talk to 18-year-old me, I would tell, like, do more. Do everything possible. Touch every part of that campus. Uh, try every program. Do things that you have never done before, because you have a unique experience for those four years to really tap into the world. Like, not just your immediate environment. You can really go across the world with this. And, and, and like you said, Datone, you, you may not know what door may open, but now you've created a relationship with something that you never even thought about, and that's leading to another opportunity.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:12:26

Yeah

Frank Duerson (2) 1:12:27

I had, if I could do it all over again, I think I would've even maximized even further. I feel like I left, you know, no stone unturned there, but like Colleen said, I wish I would've done study abroad. But it... I remember where I was at 18 to 21, you know, I was scared to think of doing something like that, you know? My main focus was like, "I just gotta get out of here. I just gotta get out of here." I would just say that, you know, just kind of broaden your, your horizon, your perspective in the sense that, yeah, you have school and studies come first, but there are a lot of things that you can tap into. And don't let fear or the fact that nobody has done it before me, like, be the first. It's okay to be the first. You'd be surprised if, you know, you go on to walk through those doors, what type of opportunity, you know, would, would be presented to you

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:13:08

I would, um, echo everything that's been said so far. I don't have anything new to add

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:13:16

All right. So...

Frank Duerson (2) 1:13:18

this too shall pass. I'm sorry. And this too shall pass. So, and if you're one of those students that's having the difficulty there, I'm just letting you know, when you're in the thick of it, you think that this is it and this is all life is. But as somebody who's now 20 years away from it, this too shall pass. And once you get over it, it is blue skies and sunshine. I'm not gonna lie to you. Like we're, we're not lying to you. It, it is better on the other side. As they say, well, it's a good place to be from, not at. But that's my goal. Hopefully we, we did things to change it. Hope, hope people are enjoying their experiences more, you know, while they're there. Because it, it really is, it's, it's an incredible opportunity, you know, if you, if you allow yourself to, you know, experience everything that's there. But it-- this too shall pass

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:14:00

Well, and Frank, you have a opportunity to go check it out and see what has changed how the student experience is now. You can ask them yourself because the program turns 40 this year, and we're gonna be returning back to campus in September for the celebration. And so I wanted to ask those of you, everybody, right? We all were there, um, and some of us have visited, you know, more recently. So what are your top three must-dos, when you go back in September? And again, for those of you who have been there mo- more, more recently, please share all, you know, what new items we, we might want to add to the list

J. Zane Stephens 1:14:41

You got to go to Duncan. That student center, like all the time we spent in La Fortune, Duncan is the new... Everything we wanted La

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:14:49

Yeah.

J. Zane Stephens 1:14:49

after we graduated, like, man, these chairs are old. This is the same, uh, booth that was here when I was here. Acoustic Cafe, the same little stage downstairs. But Duncan, that's what they did. They didn't upgrade La Fortune. They did it. So go hang out in Duncan.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:15:04

Ah, okay

J. Zane Stephens 1:15:05

al- you always got, you always got to go to The Grotto. But I would just encourage you to maybe, maybe put some noise-canceling headphones on, or maybe not, and just really walk the entire campus. Like, just walk the entire campus and take it in and realize how lucky and how fortunate you are to be at an institution that once you get out and you in the workforce and people find out where you went, hey, they are-- Some will be impressed. A lot of them will be envious. a place that their grandfather told them about or their dad told them about, and they tried to get them into, and for whatever reason, they couldn't get in, but you did. So don't take it for granted

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:15:47

Yeah. I'm gonna add to the list, um, a visit to the bookstore. I can't complete a campus visit without going to that bookstore and, um, grabbing some type of swag, you know, that they may have because it's different than ordering online. Um, and they're just... Yeah, it's really nice, right? I think the other part is, like, going back to old spots. You know, whatever was, like, your hood, your hangout spot, um, just seeing it, you know, over again, if it's still there. You know, you should go. Um, Colleen noted that her dorm no longer exists, so RI- RIP to your dorm. But any other, you know, old spot, um, that you're, you know, used to. And I think the other part is, um, just taking that iconic look at the Golden Dome from, like, the center of the, you know, the, the yard. You know, that, like, view never gets old

Jones (2) 1:16:47

I want to go eat in South Dining Hall, um, and sit in the Harry Potter-esque building and just kind of... Honestly, that was some of, some of my favorite experiences was just being in the dining hall, um, sitting at those first two tables right there in South Dining Hall, 'cause that's where everybody sat. Um, I remember one time I sat for two full meals. Like, I just sat there entire time. It was during exams. I was very stressed and and was... And just sat there and talked. And people just kept coming in and talking, and coming in and talking, and was, it was just such a nice Time.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:17:40

I, I think I would... Like I said, I wanna get a quarter dog, but I don't know if they still doing that or not. I'm, I'm serious about that. I wanna find a space to

J. Zane Stephens 1:17:46

De nada. De nada

Frank Duerson (2) 1:17:47

know, we gotta find them. I will eat up some hot dogs if I have to and have me some fortune. But I wanna relive that experience. Being a non-athlete, I always wanted to walk on the field, so that's one thing I'm looking

Jones (2) 1:17:56

Did you manage to storm the field that time?

Frank Duerson (2) 1:17:58

that grass.

J. Zane Stephens 1:18:00

Hey, how,

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:01

No, I only get-- I never g- I never got to touch the field. Never got to touch the field

J. Zane Stephens 1:18:04

Frank, hol- holla at Corey Mays. He got me sideline passes. It was my bucket list.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:08

Oh, really? Yeah, that's one thing I

J. Zane Stephens 1:18:09

And that's your, and that's, and that's your frat brother, so yeah

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Might holla at, might holla at dogs

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:14

That, it w- and we, we extend beyond the Balfour, you

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:17

We

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:17

group. See, the perfect example of that. We talked about that a little bit, but people may not believe it given all the love on this, on this call right now, but we, we, we do for sure, for sure. Um, and just-

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:29

last space I wanna access is Dr., was it Father Hesburgh, that condo that he has up at the top of the library?

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:18:35

Oh.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:36

space I

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:36

Oh, his office.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:37

yeah.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:38

Yeah

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:39

there. Was it like a, was it an

Jones (2) 1:18:40

They said it was an apartment.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:41

wh-

Jones (2) 1:18:41

That was the rumor

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:42

was it? I heard like multiple things. That's what I thought too.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:46

on the third

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:46

there.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:48

Yeah.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:48

office? Oh, Okay.

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:51

like Corby.

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:52

I didn't

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:52

So

Frank Duerson (2) 1:18:53

nosy,

Jetaun Davis-Anderson 1:18:53

we, we're getting some other suggestions from the chat, from the, from the chat from our, our tech crew in the background just to let you know you gotta come to the Balfour office. It's gonna be, uh, in Bond Hall, the new space. So definitely make sure you, you try check that out. And those of you who love swag, in addition to going to the bookstore, you will also get some Balfour swag as well, right? So, so you gotta come, you gotta come for sure. Well, thank you all for joining us for the third episode of Dialogue Through the Decades, Conversations with Balfour-Hesburgh Alumni. And thank you to each of our guests for sharing your journeys and wisdom with us and, you know, time out of your busy schedules. Um, again, we wanna invite all program participants of the Balfour program to join us on campus September 10th through 13th during the Notre Dame versus Rice weekend for the 40th celebration of the Balfour program. For more information about, uh, the Balfour Scholars Program, as well as all the festivities that we have planned, the gala, networking with students, there's gonna be a, um, a mass schedule. Um, you can definitely check out, um, that information, um, online on Instagram at balfour_hesburgh_scholars. And also to, to keep up with the series. So stay tuned to the future episodes. Please visit think.nd.edu. And with that being said, go Irish.

Krystal Hardy Allen 1:20:24

Ash.

J. Zane Stephens 1:20:25

Go Irish